Обсуждение

What kind of brown are you?

@heliomass.com

Aren’t some of those protected characteristics and therefore those aren’t allowed

Sex _______ No really, sex__________

Cant recall I was a newborn and had .not learned what gender means

What the heck is "visually identified ethnicity?"

This is worded really weirdly. UK orgs usually ask this stuff, completely optionally, for aggregate monitoring only - so HR can identify if, for example, women/minorities are being rejected more often than men or white people.

Answer: Nunya

youtu.be/qqXi8WmQ_WM jobs be like

I'm used to ethnic identification requests on similar forms (in the US), and in theory I support it if used well (it's hard to track bias if there's no data, even flawed self-reported data), but I've never seen this "ok, what sort of person do you *look* like?" question before.

Clarifying: it’s US based, with my old contract employer guardian US. Curious about the gap between sex at birth and visually identifiable sex at birth. Also curious if this is legal in NY?

"What size of gametes were you observed producing at birth?"

😬

No I wasn't having sex at birth, I was just an innocent little baby.

Ma.answer ro the first three: a) now?? 🫪 b) my parents had some nine month before that, I was yet too young c) I was told they weren't watching porn then

Is "visually identified as" even an actual thing they specifically fill in on your birth certificate or do you need do track down all people present at your birth and ask them what their first impression was? You can't give a legally correct answer without a source for this information, right?

"I'm [ethnicity], but I can pass for White"? Also argh.

Is "Go Fuck Yourself" an option?

But what is the difference between Sex Assigned at Birth and Visually Determined Sex Assigned at Birth? How do doctors even do this, if not by sight?

Trans & mixed race folks: the line for throwing up before fight or flight response kicks in forms behind me!

"I did not have sex until I was 18?"

Have you been circumcised or subjected to genital mutilation? Questions that most people would find abhorent. Somehow, don't make the connection with trans people

Do they want you to upload a genital picture as verification? Good lord.

Terf Island out of pocket with this one

"regional sex at birth" next?

😬

Not a company with which I would ever be associated in -any- way.

Pretty sure IBM had a very short stint where their hiring system asked questions like this, and then it was rightfully shut down as soon as people went wtf

Even if the position is US-based, the Guardian is still based in the UK, and the UK government and media (including the Guardian) are now 100% hellbent on forcing people to disclose their "biological sex" in all situations so they can enforce their regressive laws against trans and intersex people

Disgusting

The Britiah answer should be: SEX: yes, please SEX AT BIRTH: you sicko VISUAL SEX AT BIRTH: you sicko

😳

😳

wtaf

I was a baby at the time so I don't remember. I was probably a couple of days old before I even saw a mirror for the first time.

a very british bigotry

That is entirely too many questions about your FUCKING PRIVATE PARTS for a job application.

Speaking of the UK given birth certificates are not historical documents and "sex" is a very malleable concept and we are under no obligation to assist the state and we live in a jurisidiction where you cannot sign your rights away imo it's whatever you want to put in the box.

1/7 An llm says about a reply comment to your post, Many HR systems pull demographic fields from standardized federal reporting templates (such as IPEDS data required by the National Center for Education Statistics, or federal EEOC codes). In the backend database, fields are often labeled

“visually identified sex at birth” girl i was in an incubator for three months, i wasn’t visually identifying anything

“Upload your Aryan certificate”

Pantone value of skin color at birth:

Wtf with that “visually identified race” question too

I have never seen questions for visually identified sex or race before. I live in the UK. This seems a new (and unpleasant) development.

"None", "N/A", "N/A" "Um, you wrote none in the sex field." "Yes, that's right." "W... what's in your pants?" "That's an inappropriate question to be asking, isn't it?"

This is normal for job applications?

>sex >are you a tranny >do you pass

"Visually identified race of ethnicity" is also wild, while we're at it.

Visually Identities sex at birth “Yes, I believe the doctor looked at my junk but I was only a couple seconds old so I cant say for sure”

Que diable 🤯

Was there a “Visually identified sex today?”

My answers would be "Nunya" "Business"

"Visual Sex at birth" I know the answer for me "Doctor said I was a boy but I developed a period :3"

Christ on a banana. How is this different to recording race on birth certificates? Can you imagine if it was asked: 'What is your race? What was your race recorded at birth?' Why do we need to record sex/gender EVER on a form of ID? Why can't it just be self-declared, like everything else?

Visually Identified Race or Ethnicity somewhat tan person: "I don't know, you tell me"

It is totally normal for companies to request naked photos of you as a baby and to confirm your preferred slurs as part of the interview process to ensure you are a good culture fit.

at that point just have a field that says "penis?" and the responses are "yes", "no", and "prefer not to say" (those responses are counted as "yes")

NUNYA.

Where’s the “innie or outie” question?

"visually identified sex at birth" is rightfully catching a lot of flak here but I do feel like "visually identified race/ethnicity" is also deserving of some concern lmao

Wonder if I can just put N/A for some of those and be done with it

n/a, n/a, no, human, human

In the U.S. “employers should not request information that discloses or tends to disclose an applicant's race unless it has a legitimate business need for such information” www.eeoc.gov/pre-employme...

Yes, ew no, and I probably could have yeah I was a cool baby

visually identified ethnicity or race? what, you mean at birth? "Grey and wrinkled". also Sex: "yes, please" Sex at birth: "I hope not"

Now we know what the Machine That Goes PING! does.

"I didn't look"

I wasn't having sex at birth, I was far too young.

Wow...

Why do they need to know any of this on the application? Okay, “sex” is a fairly universal question, I guess (though it shouldn’t matter), but every question after that disgusts me.

either Dr Mengele would like to properly classify all the subvariants of the intersex & trans overlaps or someone asked an AI to suggest the questions and never proof-read it

all of these questions should be illegal

Went on a hunt, only to learn that “Visually Identified Sex at Birth” is apparently an admin only field employers can use to forcibly gender anyone who doesn’t want to disclose… docs.oracle.com/en/cloud/saa...

Eeeesh.

what the fuck is this shit

Dunno, eyes hadn't focused yet.

name and shame

Visually Identified Sex At Birth? Even if I were paying attention, I certainly wouldn't be able to remember it now.

If my boss asked me: do you have a penis or a vagina????? I would simply sue him for being gross.

Visually Identified Sex At Birth: “No….no it…it can’t be…NO…NO…AIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEE”

"Visually identified Race or Ethnicity" Buddy I confuse everyone|

This is so fucked up. I don’t even want to visit the UK as a trans person. Try applying for a job in Germany as a disabled person and you get asked to share your medical files with the committee.

I encountered this in my job search earlier this year from a Catholic university. I thought it was a bit... invasive.

I would write "None of your fucking business." Even though I'm a cis person.

Whoever came up with this form has a lot to learn about the reliability of visual identification.

If they want you to attach some tasteful nudes then they should come right out and say so

ngl this is how it feels all the time when people bring it up

Brits, probably: “you think Brexit was a bad look, have you seen my transphobic gender surveillance system that institutes state-sponsored disenfranchisement from work on non-cis people?”

If you read the Oracle documentation for this, they blame America: docs.oracle.com/en/cloud/saa... "Visually Identified Sex at Birth - Identifies the sex of employees who have declined to self-identify."

yikes! "none of your damn business"

Sadly a lot of jobs in the UK have this question, it's just usually worded less direct than this. It shouldn't matter and I don't see why it's on the application forms, other than to discriminate against trans, non-binary and intersex people, despite technically being illegal to do so.

And what are those questions on race? Are they telling you to submit an ancestry test and describe your skin colour?

Visually identified ethnicity or race? tfw

All babies can visually identify at birth is fuzzy blobs. I don't think a single person could truthfully answer "yes" to that question even if by chance there'd been people fucking in the delivery room

Remember folks You can always just lie Corporate entities don’t intrinsically deserve truth

“Visually identified”???

I thought only the US had the audacity to ask such racist misogynistic & homophobic questions on a job application!!!

Can’t they just ask — yo, you ever have a dick?

Sorry, visually identified sex at birth?? WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN

I wonder what kind of job requires detailed description of employee's genitals as they were seen at birth.

Jesus christ. What company is this??

Woah, are they allowed to ask those?

"No, I was a baby."

I have no idea what visually identified sex at birth is, that's bizzare. It could be "what sex do you look like"? Same with visually identified race, what is that? Is it like "the race people think you are" even if it's wrong, like you are an aboriginal Australian wrongly assumed to be African

Feels like you can just write "yes" in every single box

They should skip the innuendo and ask for skull measurements.

This feels like a US company. A conservative one too. Probably based in the south and/or has strong biblical beliefs amongst the ownership.

I mean, that was a really long time ago at this point

"Sex you are clocked as"

"Sex as would have been visually identified by Joanne Rowling had she been present at your birth"

"I am visually identified as nunya"

My niece changed jobs (in Bristol) because her employer (subsidiary of a US corp) started doing this sort of stuff. Sometimes it's not the British.

For "visually identified race/ethnicity" are you supposed to use the food scale some preschools teach? "Lightly-toasted hamburger bun," "peanut butter," "milk chocolate," "coffee grounds"?