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People also tend to treat school/children’s sports as professional sports for children when for 99.9% of kids it’s just something fun to do where you can make friends and be active.

I would love to see the US men’s olympic swim team compete against juvenile great white sharks.

Even if men and women were on average exactly equally good at a given sport the massive funding and visibility advantages men’s sports have mean that their much larger talent pool would lead to stronger men’s teams Like I straight up do not believe men are inherently better at darts or chess etc

Yep. The correct answer is, "who gives a shit?" Women's sports might not be identical in form to men's, but if you like sports they are every bit as fun and cool and entertaining.

The framing of most things is bad faith! This is exactly what we should do! If sport is only valuable due to the who is ‘the winner’ sport would be impossible? Rather there are people who are good players and make games exciting. It cannot be ‘only the best team matters.’ That makes no sense.

I just get annoyed at people who say things like "womens leagues exist because men don't like losing to women". You don't have to do that. You can just enjoy womens sports on their own merit. They're a lot of fun.

The analogy I always draw is the merit between lightweight and heavyweight boxers. Different styles of play, same level of skill involved.

Don't let yourself be dragged into bad faith framing has to be the slogan for woke 2.0

That said, you have to have a vocabulary to talk about the effects of HRT because you need to be able to show your work that trans women on HRT are female. The question that hangs over all of this is Thomas' concurrence in WV v BPJ. It's about the mutability of sex.

It’s a trap, just like “women aren’t funny”.

These same people trying to provoke this argument love college football whose greatest teams would get steamrolled by the 08 lions. It’s ok to like watching sports that aren’t only the world’s best players.

One of the reasons they choose sports is becasue it really makes no sense. Like a guy runs faster than you and you're just supposed to say that makes him more of a sports expert than you?

Everybody should read carefully the @anthonymoser.com article on "Kirby framing" before responding to bad faith debate questions that pop up on here.

The men vs women argument always feels like "my dad could beat up your dad" which is the realm of middle schoolers and therefore beneath us

Why is any sport contingent on performance? When I fenced, I competed in open events and practiced with guys. I won some, lost more but it was fun. I'm now the old fat lady at the group bike ride. It's social and fitness. The problem is people now "compete" in sports and no longer "play" sports.

THIS.

but even in the context of the bad faith framing, we are talking about the outliers of human performance where the bell curves of performance don't overlap; no single person pushing this understands the laws of large numbers let alone exists in that statistical area of exceptional performance

I think we should talk about the value of publically funded sports in general. I value it for 2 reasons, to teach people sportsmanship, and get some excercise. Good sportsmanship is inclusive, and bad sportsmanship creates uncivl people imo

"The purpose of sports is to train the people I watch on TV" vs "the purpose of sports is to have fun playing sports"

so conceding their point was how you didn't fall for the trap? bsky.app/profile/nota...

Watching F1 spending the entire time bragging about airplanes

People should care about professional sports 90% less and rec leagues that they could join 1000% more. The debate does not matter. It doesn't affect real people. Everyone should play more sports.

If you think women’s sports has value and dignity then why would you not want to ensure it’s protected for women? Seems a bizarre take. If you don’t say it’s only for women it’s not, by definition, women’s sport any more.

I don't think most non-athletes understand how much of physical advantage males have in sports... I played college basketball, and in high-school, my AAA team was challenged to a game by the top Canadian women's university team. I thought we would probably lose, but we beat them and it wasn't close

No one ever considers that women actually bring different skills that make the sport functionally different. Watch wnba and you’ll see no-look passes, ball movement, and blocks that are different from the nba (and more entertaining). Its why womens figure skating has less falls and better execution

the right wants to bait you into an argument that you don't need to have and that you will probably lose. it's important to recall what your principles are rather than just negatively polarize against whatever they're spewing