Публикация

We’re not actually supposed to gain anything from it. We’re supposed to share our perspective as a lesson to the right, or something. And never forget that they think we’re freaks? I guess??

Let me guess: most of the thinkpieces are written by white men under the age of 50. Everyone else has learned the value of protecting our peace. They’re the last ones screaming, “Debate me! DEBATE ME, DAMMIT!”

Blame the victim narrative. We're done being victims and willing participants in our own abuse. Their hurt feelings are not my responsibility.

Time was spent trying to educate the Republican Trash Heap supporters but they were a forgone cult. WE TRIED! We don’t agree 100% on everything, so many options. We are not in an echo chamber. It is a respect chamber & can educate each other. So grateful for all I learned the last 5 months.

You shouldn't have to put up with it. And straight white dudes like me who value our friends and family shouldn't have to put up with seeing those we care about get abused just because they're slightly different.

In addition, we aren't nearly as insular as they claim. We represent a diverse group of folks who are united by a quite reasonable distrust of Donald, his billionaire friends, and their fascist cronies. We have a big umbrella indeed but it still does not encompass their ilk nor will it ever.

Well, how can they gaslight us if we pull away from them? Like right now there is a concerted effort to divide us, instead of pointing the finger at the true culprit. Greedy tax dodgers like Elon Musk.

It’s a parallel with the claim, “Dems lost for being too woke.” “Bluesky is limited by woke.” It’s all such infuriating, feckless bullshit.

The thing is that “public discourse” implies that there is respectful dialogue or principled debate. These fascists have no respect for anyone nor are they principled in any way.

Sometimes when you feel like those you interact with IRL seem not to get the way you think, it's vital to find communities online that can reassure you that it is not just you. That way thinking develops rather than dies.

right?! there's plenty of diversity of thought here. but I'm not being threatened with rape and death for expressing my opinions.

And the abuse is the point of what they think is discourse. Faahhhk that. Let's defend the skyline.

Fuck 'em all. And remember how often a body of water was all that saved people from being invaded, enslaved and worse. I say let's not only be insular but also equip the beaches with mines and barbed wire.

Except we don't, right? We don't have to subjected to that abuse, now. They can all eat a bag of dicks.

Don't overthink it, just block racist, sexist, homophobic fucks.

How else are the RWers supposed to get their FrEE sPeEcH?

Social capital is awesome if you have tons of it to throw around.

Frustrating. Perhaps we're interested in world events and things beyond our own or others' sexuality. It's a necessity to know what potential abusers might do, it's a pleasure to take in the outside world. We're actually not insular by nature like some are.

I don’t understand the persistence of this whole argument. If people don’t like Bluesky, for any reason, they don’t have to be on it, same for the tweeters.

We all need a place to surround ourselves with positive energy. Yeah that's a good thing. But if I don't make an effort to daily fight back the echo chamber of lies, then who will. There has to be a point where we make a stand and call them out for their deplorable behavior. TS is the trenches.

etc here...

What irritates me about the whole "echo chamber" thing is that most of us just want to use social media to be social, to interact with similarly minded friendly folks. No one owes anyone any level of interaction on here (or anywhere!)

Exposure to the “both sides” argument is truth vs lies. I pay attention to the President and Congress. I know what reality is. @facebook.bsky.social and X offer consumers nothing but lies. I’ll pass.

But being insular is like choosing the bear, apparently...

A generalisation... In their logic, they have the right to abuse and you have the right to be abused. They see this as "freedom" as long as it is one way abuse. They see money as the important thing but most of us here see morals as the important thing. That's a core difference in my opinion.

It also puts the starting point (and sort of blame) at us leaving twitter, and not the abusive things abusive people have said and done. Being a nazi creates an echo chamber, because only Nazis will talk to you.

This American Life episode called Thos is theCake We Baked, and in it there's a bit with a woman who has been on the press circuit for her horrific pregnancy / refused healthcare story. We deserve a respite from the fights we endure. We deserve social connections that give us hope. No guilt.

It's the attack philosophy of bullies intended to undermine the strength of the opposition. No one should put up with abuse and a platform that properly administers users will ensure it doesn't happen.

I mean...That's the whole reason they're trying to spin that story right? They're pissed off that they can't be verbally abusive to as many people anymore. Now they can only eat themselves. Ouroboros, but certainly not as eternal.

it also pisses me off bc there’s this assumption that social media should be all about politics and having conversations. i’m willing to engage, but i’m mostly here to look at pretty art- in which case a well curated feed, an “echo chamber”, is actually a good thing

Also, we all know what they are saying anyway 😖

i'm tired of the stupid from the donnie cult. i can't listen to a word they say because it makes my brain hurt.

💞❤️‍🔥💞

Well said

Nope we, especially you,get to have this safe space. The difference between us and Truth Social and the crap show that used to be Twitter is that we traffic in truth and facts. What's the upside to letting them corrupt this one? They can GFT

And, I keep thinking about the fact that vile political views are not really diverse. It’s not an echo chamber in here or among my friends I see in person. We all have different types of jobs and interests that keep a wide range of conversations going for way longer than some false political binary.

Reminds me of the cartoon where one shape is told it doesn't belong, so it goes off with a few others into a small space of their own. When the main group finds them, it says they're being excluded and crowds in, then says the ones who had been there don't belong.

📌

The dumbs twist the 1A to suggest "You must listen to me because free speech." No. No we don't. Shout it from your rooftop, IDGAF. But I refuse to entertain racism, misogyny and bigotry. We do not owe anyone our attention when they are spewing hate.

Nothing wrong with Twitter, Facebook, and other online spaces becoming insular spaces for right wing bootlickers, but when the left does it, it's bad

all mainstream press & sm is currently a delivery system for their sadism & threats but it's no fun if the intended targets stop participating...and that's when they start crying about discourse. it's all bullshit.

True. Also, we’ve generally agreed that the other side is a cult and there’s no point in engaging. Block and move on.

Or pretending that what happens there is debate. With rare exception it’s not!

Currently capitalism gives us freedom to choose whatever option pleases us most. Why would you choose to be some ignoramus’s verbal punching bag?

It's okay to be insular if the other side is offering nothing but drivel.

Had a conversation with a neighbor who said he was glad M bought Twitter because he permitted free speech. He clearly doesn't understand "free speech" contains the US govt, not the population. Nice guy, but headdesk

The people writing those articles are under some kind of delusion that Twitter isn’t totally dominated by right wing trolls that have made using it practically impossible. The day after the election, white supremacist Nick Fuentes got “your body my choice” on the top of the trending tab

Yeah it feels very SSDD for me, oh you want the right to call disabled people names and threaten visible minorities with death camps and are mad that's bad behavior? Right-o, it's literally every space on the internet too big to have a single moderator.

Don't listen. It's bullshit. We don't have to have "public discourse" if we don't fucking want to! They can rip themselves apart if they need to be assholes. I refuse to be their doormat.

Also, social media owners don't even care about public discourse. They care about people fighting so the site is more active and people see more ads.

Hey, it’s not FreeSpeech™ if the asshats don’t get to scream at and insult and make bad-faith arguments at people they don’t like.

Ridiculous. We don’t want or need to hear even more from those people, we know where to find them if we want that.

True. The reason for exodus and boycott is happening is that a once popular social media site chose to silence ordinary humane social interaction to favour the voices of trolls, cynics and thugs. Let them all scream into the void including the journalists who argue their cause.

Nopity nope! Don't do it!

As far as I know, nobody's keeping right-wingers from joining Bluesky as long as they don't insult people.

Well said. I agree if you throw all females. Even the daft ones who voted for 'em.

I liked it better when it was more insular

Yes, because they need to be able to hurt us constantly, or feel that they're doing so. Maybe they'll start eating one another...

How do you make cowardly MAGA supporters tuck their tails between their legs & run away? Present them with irrefutable facts until suddenly their right to post doesn’t matter.

"It's hurtful when you don't stick around to be attacked and deliberately baited into ridiculous circular arguments. You think you can just leave? Did Thomas Jefferson "just leave"??" I mean if they had anything of interest to say, instead of acting out their hatred & emptiness over & over & over

I told Mark Cuban that exact thing when he did the "shouldn't you want to hear opposing views" schtick. Those fuckers already own every megaphone, we already know their shit encrusted minds thanks, they always denigrate us and NEVER HEAR US.

Let them abuse each other. I think it's called a circle of jerks.

There's a time and a place for listening to both sides of an argument. That hellsite promoting literal Nazis, bigots, and fascist bootlickers is not it. For some arguments, there is no "other side" worth hearing out. I'll make liberal use of my functioning block button on this site, tyvm.

Haven't you heard? In mainstream discourse, impartial mustn't mean impartial anymore. metro.co.uk/2020/10/30/b...

BBC's new 'no bias' rule creates confusion over LGBT Pride paradesThe rules are in place in order to reinforce the BBC's status as an impartial organisation.metro.co.uk

Exactly. Free speech increasingly seems to be something that only exists if it’s within the parameters of what racists facists and bigots demand the rest of us hear and which excludes what the rest of us think.

I don’t understand the argument. How is T*****r supposed to have fixed this. Like Bsky, you choose who your feeds should be filled with. That, by definition, is how you make an echo chamber. What the other site does to supposedly fix this is implicitly to add what it thinks you should also be 1/2

That's peak toxicity: "you're wrong to want to get away from me, you should let me keep on harassing you and making you feel miserable ! You're impeding on my rights to make you feel really bad !!" That's the "right" they feel deprived from...

And what discourse, of course? Those other places everyone but the far right and trolls gets drowned out to begin with. That's not even what 'discourse' is when no communication is allowed.

It also assumed that everyone that isn’t on the right is not the public.

oop 🙃

Nailed it!

Like with everything now, whatever a person say who voted for a convicted felon, adjudicated rapist hold no weight.

Think of the trolls! But seriously, it’s like they don’t understand that the best shitposters are all we need to balance things out, and they are *not* on the right.

They can all stay on X and abuse each other

There does seem to be a very entitled 'You're OUR punching bag, not the other way around' mentality to the discourse of bsky & 'free speech.' But bigots always believe that they are the gate keepers

I’m done with there’s two sides, let the other side speak…there’s right or wrong, good or bad, justice or injustice, tolerance or intolerance…we are too much everyone gets a trophy whether you win or loose! It needs to stop!

It’s much easier to just flush the MAGA turds.

They hate losing their targets

Yes, yes, too insular, that must be why it is picking up tens of millions of users.

Abusers need a victim. Narcissistic sadistic goblins need their supply. They’ve been hating on us for so long and telling us to go away but they didn’t mean it. Us not being around to continue feeding them is a punishment worse than - anything. 😁 Frankly brings a smile to my face.

If you accept their assertion that we’re all “wrong”, then clearly it’s their responsibility to lecture and abuse us into right thought, and our responsibility to sit there and take it. Obviously. (sarcastic)

Fuck them. This is our safe, peaceful place and it’s killing them because we can ignore (block) them. 😁

It's also telling that joining Bluesky supposedly "insulates" us from conservative voices, according to this framing. There's no ban on conservatives joining Bluesky. From what I've seen so far, people just can't heap slurs on others or threaten violence. Connect the dots if you will.

Absolutely. Another piece to this that I mentioned somewhere else is that the right doesn't want to be in their own echo chamber because they're afraid of schisms within their own party if they actually start talking to each other instead of fighting the "other".

I say “🖕🏻” to “ all the pieces”. Love it here.

These are the people who object to any kind of moderation. I'm still skeptical about Bluesky, but for other reasons, namely its VC background and its continued failure to make followers and follows portable, as they are on Mastodon.

thats not public discourse.....no one deserves abuse just for who they are.

Never let them abuse you. Don't let them get away with it.

see it as a resting place Louisa, for the time being, and like George commented am place to form and plot resistance sis! love aussie auntee!

It goes both ways. I remain on Twitter so I can persecute Nazis and expose poopaganda.

I know we talk about resisting/rebelling, but it's also valid to just not want to be a target. Harm and risk minimisation is something that girls are taught at a very young age; it's more than reasonable to leave a situation where you're not feeling safe.

That’s exactly how I feel. No. I’m done.

Yes, my existence is not a “debate” I’m a whole ass human and I have the agency to determine what I will expose myself to or put up with. I’m still on Twitter and FB But Yanno if I wanna chill on BlueSky, I don’t owe it to anyone to “debate” them I don’t debate Nazis I may d*xx them tho

I blocked a Nazi Swastika here yesterday, and an Alex Jones fan today. I’m getting ready to delete that Hellsite I only stayed on to push against that Sociopath Owner.

And it seems people think there is something inherently bad about a social, public space where marginalized folks feel safe. "But what if they continue to feel good? What then?" seems to be the line of thinking.

this... like, if we're not fighting with imbeciles, or serving ourselves up for abuse, something is wrong. Nothing is wrong. Do not adjust your dial. Something something they can cry more.

📌

As I’ve told people. If you don’t like it here then don’t join. No one is forcing you. And no one here cares. It like they think “oh no we have to join and let them know we don’t like there opinions”.

Agreed. They *want* the right to be bullies. Pfui.

It is a bad faith argument that they don’t apply to Truth Social, Fox News, or any number of other one-sided outlets.

Their vibe is Why won’t you stand still so I can hit you

💥💥💥💥💥 Say it!

If I shared this on Facebook, would you prefer it be with attribution for credit, or w/o for privacy?

How did these people cope before social media? The self proclaimed free speech lobby seem to believe that not only are they entitled to their opinion (which they are) but other people are obliged to listen to them (which they're not).

The only way in which social media is like the public square is that the marginalized and outsiders can't take a stroll around it without being in constant fear of being attacked. Fuck the public square.

I hate this on your behalf! And it's abuse for abuse's sake. There's no new information in the right-wing echo chamber. I've already noted that they consider me a pedophile, communist snowflake, even if I'm not directly targeted. Noted.

Remember how in school, a deeply disruptive kid is sent home because their chaos means no one else can learn? Same in adulthood. Note that the disruptive kid will probably respond to a compassionate, insightfully targeted intervention when it's made available.

How can they do performative outrage theater without someone to be performatively outraged at? You're so cruel to deny them content! /s

It's a truly privileged position to think that 'arguing' with bigots on the Internet (more often they intentionally seek you out and harass you) is just a very uncivil argument. Maybe they'll be a bit mean. That you won't be harassed endlessly, doxxed, outed to your family etc.

Not just put up with abuse but respond to it in a calm and rational and polite manner, or else the attackers will get worse.

bsky.app/profile/caia...

I didn't use Twitter for politics, but I did leave it because of the growing toxic atmosphere that invaded my feed regularly. It's a relief the science and philosophy people I followed are finally doing the same and coming to Bluesky.

They don't believe in public discourse. Why should we?

Bingo, you are spot on. Eff them. . Thanks for being here. 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️

They have no right to an audience.

And by extension to that point, I've seen YouTube try to recommend videos trying to dunk on Blue Sky by channels like Sargan of Akkad & Clownfish TV due to that kind of thing. Like, seriously, did you not get the hint with Blue Sky earlier? Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit, you fools! 😐

As if abuse was in any way discourse.

Thank you for stating so clearly what I’ve been unable to articulate. Why do I want to go where I know people will scream at me?

I’ve had enough racial trauma. I’m cool being cozy.

The world is so fucked right now, i think it does everyone good to just chat with like minded people. Social media isn't essential, it's a hobby, it shouldn't come with abuse and bullying as standard. 😔

😹🤣💯

There’s also an underlying belief that this debate is somehow productive. I’m not sure anyone’s mind gets changed. I wonder if it makes people feel like they are in action without having done anything. Perhaps that is the right’s intention?

None of us are under any obligation to just sit back & take verbal abuse. If someone is being a d*ck, cut them off.

Like arguing a physically and mentally abused spouse must tolerate the abuse for the sake of the abuser.

It’s really deep when framed up that way (i.e., properly).

Perfectly said.

Word!!!!

I don't hang out with bigots, bullies and racists irl. Bigots, bullies and racists complaining will not change my mind to accepting abuse. END OF TOPIC FOREVER

Yeah it's not about broadening "our" Echo chamber. The whole narrative and discourse is about enforcing THEIRS.

I actually don't think that's it. I think certain privileged white people are angry that others of their ilk prefer spaces that include us than in spaces that have run us out. They see it as a betrayal that our voices would be valued by people who they feel ought to sensibly abandon us to our fate.

Hear, hear.

Yeah, they come up with whatever excuses they can - both to continue abusing people, and to continue adding to the muskrat's wealth. Fuck 'em. Life is too sweet to pay any mind to such poison.

a woman with a bandana on her head is smiling and says aint nobody got time for thatALT: a woman with a bandana on her head is smiling and says aint nobody got time for thatmedia.tenor.com

I got swarmed by some cis people and just stopped being part of the conversation. It was so nice. I don't owe them a harassment target

The “progressive echo chamber fleeing X” narratives are bizarre. Most of us didn’t join X—we joined Twitter. Then new management rebranded & made a truly terrible product, so people chose something different. That’s literally the free market. Isn’t capitalism supposed to be their thing?

This.

As if empathy, open-mindedness, and fairness are something to be ridiculed and mocked. They would rather people continue to justify their existence on an ever sliding scale instead of scooting over and making room.

Nope. Keep em out. I don’t go to parties in crack dens. I spend time with people I like, and who like me - nothing wrong with that.

I don't know what is gained from suffering that abuse. Is any RW opinion these days surprising or informative? Sure, it might be surprising how depraved people can be, but I don't see there's anything to learn from a vile POV

Your people are safe at my account 🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈

The right just doesn’t get the concept of “Mind your own damn business!”

I guess people are on #Bluesky for different reasons. Some people are seeking a safe space. For me it wasn't so much the abuse/imbecility level on Twitter. It was the fact that I didn't trust the owner not to manipulate the site and use it as his personal political weapon at opportune times.

I don’t think it’ll be insular for that long, they’re starting to follow everyone over here.

It’s such a self-serving definition of insular too. I follow shark biologists, comic book artists, medieval historians, and homeschoolers, but that’s an echo chamber unless I’m following conservative pundits and terfs? Give me a break.

That's exactly what they're saying. We need to suck it up and just take it.

I was hoping that when we left, they would just be happy to fight among themselves. It would be a shallow dig to pick each other apart.

FUCK THAT! I have been here from the beginning (well, I tried, but they didn't let everyone in then). I am NOT going back to that cesspool.

the far right does not engage in open honest discourse... bluesky is not itself pro-left, it simply allows users to curate their own experience. this is the key to it's value. if we deprive the far right of an audience for it's nonsense they become enraged....but we blocked them...so...

I never convinced even one, not a single damn troll over there to change their views or even CONSIDER it. This discourse is singularly driven by people who are invested in having someone to abuse in order to create a narrative surrounding the arguing itself and none of the actual thoughts involved.

Yeah, frankly I consider “people who previously tolerated racists but don’t now” to be as diverse as my conversations need to get. Racists and people who tolerate racists for any any reason are disqualified and I’ve been doing that sometimes quite aggressively since the 80s.

That’s not the danger. The danger of living in an insular world is that you start thinking that your own shit doesn’t stink. As an example, let me show you my hometown of Oakland.

'go make your own space so we don't have to think about the fact you exist' 'ok' 'no not like that'

They don't have anything worth listening to and without an audience of victims, its just them in an Echo chasm posting the same shit about Hitler over and over.

and us saying "no thanks" is somehow threatening

This. Also I really hate how in their minds I am apparently supposed to WANT to spent my free time, that I am not paid for, engaging with the far right OF ANOTHER COUNTRY. In my second language, no less. why would I want to do that.

It’s no silo, it’s a healthy boundary to cut abusive, discriminatory people off. Those pieces are written by people who refuse to see their own offensive views and behavior. They shirk responsibility by scapegoating the people they bully. Cut them off. They can wallow in their own dysfunction on X.

Even if people have "different perspectives" or "different points of view," I still believe in common courtesy. There are thoughtful and intelligent ways to disagree, persuade, and even argue. A troll or an outraged person isn't actually trying to engage in productive conversation.

Bullies are cowards who need the vulnerable to pick on to make themselves feel stronger, more important, better about themselves. MAGAt Psycho cowards are the worst. I sure don't miss anything about that bad place. 🎶Blue skies are smiling on me. Blue skies are all I see. 🎶🎶

Likewise, your allies 🙋‍♀️ are expected to "listen to both sides" of any "debate" over your right to exist.

And let’s be real, what’s occurring is not actually “discourse.”

Though I don’t think ‘public discourse’ is the actual thing they really want us for, at this stage..

Also I don't know why journalists think that people should be, like, required to follow or talk to others on a social media site? No one requires that if you subscribe to a newspaper or magazine that you read it from cover to cover.

How about we keep this a place where no matter our differences and disagreements, everyone is treated with dignity and respect?

yeah no thanks!

The bigots on Twitter are just as empowered to spew their bile there as they were a month ago. What has changed (for now) is that other people aren't forced to read it.

It reminds me so much of the language and spiel that abusers use to keep thier vicitims silent and submissive when they're trying to get away from them.

Ahh nope!

This is a really great point! We deserve to have a safe space to exist. I have had people say not to 'flaunt' your sexuality. But straight people hold hands in public. We can't do that? We can't be ourselves because it's 'too much' for them???

BS. I won't take abuse as a straight. You shouldn't as Bi, gay, lesbian or trans

They presume that this place has a purpose of their choosing and they def what the vulnerable to be the ones to suffer for it.

It's ridiculous

We are not the Right’s punching bag

It feels like a fabricated criticism. I have been exposed to new perspectives and information in the week I have been on here. A requirement that discourse is civil promotes diversity of ideas, because people are debating the ideas themselves, not people's worth.

It's weird. Bsky feels like a forum to me. Trying to make it back into Twitter at the cost of human decency is such a fuck ass take.

I am not any of those things and I’m not putting up with it. I’ve cut out a lot of people from my life that thinks it’s ok to say such vile things to me, because I’m not part of a marginalized, vulnerable group. My parents raised me better than that.

It's a continuation of the problematic views that the abused are tools that the abusers have a right to use.