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Well, actually, kinda, yeah, close to what happened. It's not for nothing that Jack Dorsey, who started the place and was on its board, basically ran away when the trans folks and furries scared off all the crypto bros he assumed would be the natural demographic here (they went to Nostr instead).

jack

Bluesky often seems like a project run by tech people who place great value on its architectural differences from Twitter, which nobody cares about, while not understanding how they walked ass-backwards into having a userbase (whomst they fear and despise)

Обсуждение

24 прямых ответов · 168 сообщений

Now I wonder if I should look up Nostr.

bluesky is better for having the trans community here. Wish they and the black community were better treated. @aliafonzy.blacksky.app was on a roll bringing in the black community until bsky c-suite didn’t care about all the Nazis.

G

I do have a Mastodon account. What would make it easy to transition from Bluesky to the Fediverse? Can you follow mastodon users from Bluesky or Bluesky users from Mastondon?

Ответ для Gar W. Lipow

There's some kind of bridging thing. Bruce Sterling has a Mastodon account that crossposts here Only thing is it doesn't thread properly

Ответ для Word_Geek
G

Thanks!

Ответ для Gar W. Lipow

lifehacker.com/tech/use-bri... I use the mastadon -> bluesky direction. There's also blacksky and northsky as alternatives to get (mostly/partially) off of bluesky proper. blacksky even offers a phone app now. No-one else offers a web front-end yet, but I'm sure they will. I'm on norhsky.

Ответ для mbrewer ↙↙↙

And this was exactly how they wanted to design it: if users aren't trapped in a single walled garden, the temptation for later investors to enshittify is much less Their users all jumped ship when it was more difficult to do And we have folk like you, who are not on the main site

Ответ для Word_Geek

Yup, that's why I migrated and donate to northsky monthly!

Ответ для Gar W. Lipow

I think he’s talking about other AT Protocol-based services, not so much Mastodon (which uses ActivityPub). For example, I’m on Blacksky but can interact with y’all on Bluesky because they federate with each other.

Ответ для Duchess of Doom
G

Thank you! that is helpful.

Twitter's Jack Dorsey tried to do Twitter again and forgot it would act like Twitter

Eternal blessings upon the trans folks and furries!

What the hell is Nostr

Ответ для A Wyvern

What the fuck is a Nostr?

Ответ для Alvaro Ibañez

Alternate social media that uses “exchanges” for node distribution. Blockchain based. Allows people to send crypto to other posters.

Ответ для EasilyDistracted

I’m sure it’s a riot

Ответ для Into The JennyVerse

If they're using crypto, it's more of a heist.

Ответ для EasilyDistracted

I'm not sure there is a single legal thing that I would want to use a block chain for less than social media

Ответ для EasilyDistracted

I always thought that the one thing missing from the microblogging experience was a big button marked LAUNDER MONEY

Ответ для EasilyDistracted

Sorry, “relays”, not “exchanges”. It’s a giant blob of json blobs all the way down?

Ответ для EasilyDistracted

nostr is just websocket server and json and it doesn't use any blockchain despite the micropayment part

Ответ для fizzylimesoda

Gotcha. I thought there was more integration, but given that Zaps don’t even need it that makes sense. So it’s no more suppression-proof than “Usenet just CCs every email a bajilion times” is? Or it is? I thought it was somehow more immune to that sort of thing than ATProto was.

Ответ для Alvaro Ibañez

Yeah, I think it's worth noting that there's at least *some* awareness of Bluesky as a community even among people who aren't on it, whereas Nostr is probably only known to crypto creepazoids.

For the record I think the architecture stuff is cool and also what eventually will flummox any attempt to make Bluesky more fascist-friendly, since if Bluesky runs that direction people can (theoretically) decamp to federated services (relatively) painlessly and keep going like nothing happened.

Ответ для John Scalzi

Bluesky really reminds me of what *diaspora tried to do but not implemented as well.

Ответ для John Scalzi

That said, let us take a moment to thank our Bluesky Trans and Furry Elders for freaking out Jack Dorsey so much he bolted and left us this nice social media playground, taking most of his crypto chuds with him. We thank you for your service.

Ответ для John Scalzi
Ответ для Voltaireon - 5 caustic French philosophers in a trenchcoat

(Clarification: not singling out trans and furry folks as “weirdos”, just referring to the broad population of wonderfully bizarre folks you get on here. We are all acolytes of Sensual ALF)

Ответ для Voltaireon - 5 caustic French philosophers in a trenchcoat

I’m multiply neurodivergent. I’m OK with weirdo but not the R word.

Ответ для Joqatana

My longstanding belief is that there is no such thing as “normal”. Just as oppression is intersectional, people are normal and weird on different axes, and nobody’s normal on EVERY one. And if anyone is, they’re probably the most boring person on the planet.

Ответ для Voltaireon - 5 caustic French philosophers in a trenchcoat

I am the arbiter of normalcy in my world.

Ответ для Joqatana
Ответ для Voltaireon - 5 caustic French philosophers in a trenchcoat

Normal exists. Normal. As in 'at right-angles to' I am personally normal to the primary expectations of white late-middle-aged middle-class males and all the other expectations people might have of such Normal people. Including the expectation that my Normalcy should be visible.

Ответ для Rick Ansell

Nobody said that the world had to be 3D Euclidean. Use as many axes as you like. And they don't need to be linear or continuous.

Ответ для Rick Ansell

Hooray. We found thr normal person. Let’s all calibrate our behavior.

Ответ для Rick Ansell

it fits that you're normal to how plane they are

Ответ для Voltaireon - 5 caustic French philosophers in a trenchcoat

So being normal on all the axes would be pretty weird...! (Whether that's complimentary or derogatory remains to be seen--may depend on how seriously they take themselves...)

Ответ для cpgrouchy
Ответ для Voltaireon - 5 caustic French philosophers in a trenchcoat
Ответ для John Scalzi

Its weird how the online spaces where trans and furries hang out tend to be the best spaces, even for people who aren't particularly queer someone should write a book about that oh wait

Ответ для John Scalzi

Also not forgetting the lovely BIPOC Sex Workers who helped make it happen. As “distasteful” as many consider them, Sex Workers, like Furries and Trans folks, are often signs of a healthy online ecosystem, since they embrace bodily autonomy and all that entails. Also, there’s a lot of crossover. ❤️

Ответ для John Scalzi

plus all the various sex workers! I imagine it's difficult to be a conservative asshole on fat cock friday.

Ответ для John Scalzi

o7

Ответ для John Scalzi
Ответ для John Scalzi

You're... welcome? I suppose? I mean, it's not like much was done.

Ответ для John Scalzi

Amen

Ответ для John Scalzi

Wooow, had no idea about the history. 😂 Neat!

Ответ для John Scalzi

Yes! Thank you!

Ответ для John Scalzi

Cats 🤝 Catgirls Being let into a new space first to ward-off undesired presence.

Ответ для John Scalzi

Just one invite key in the hands of a furry is enough to start a major chain reaction pushing this place in a very specific direction. We do without planning what any other group would struggle to intentionally organize.

Ответ для John Scalzi

Also: You're welcome lol

Ответ для John Scalzi

I’ve always wondered why this place is so different. 🤭💖☺️

Ответ для John Scalzi
G

🫡

Ответ для John Scalzi

we're a keystone species like wolves

Ответ для Dai Wolf

TIL furries are apex predators

Ответ для Winged Hussar

We hunt fascists.

Ответ для JR Aftersummer

Mangia bene.

Ответ для John Scalzi

You're very welcome!

Ответ для John Scalzi

I'm doing my part!

Ответ для John Scalzi
Ответ для John Scalzi

*furry noises*

Ответ для John Scalzi

Sex workers 🤝Furries 🤝Trans Folks Weaponizing Alf Erotica to scare Jack Dorsey into fleeing

Ответ для 🔞 Wysty, CEO of vampire yuri | Comms Open

The National Flag of Bluesky a rampant hog-cranking Alf in gold superimposed on a Pride flag with the stripes running vertically

Ответ для Chloe du Plessis

Dammit, now you've got me thinking about how to make that heraldically legal

Ответ для Kade Peregrine

I don't care about whether or not it's legal under the rules of heraldry I just care about whether or not we can have someone dressed as Spiderman climb the Capitol to put that flag atop it

Ответ для 🔞 Wysty, CEO of vampire yuri | Comms Open

alf hogged so the sky could run

Ответ для John Scalzi

All of the Sex Workers, Furries, Trans people, POC, Black people and more really made this place the best social media. It still sucks some days but it kinda fucks 69 times more often than it sucks

Ответ для John Scalzi

Biodiversity is crucial for a healthy ecosystem.

Ответ для John Scalzi

Unfortunately the people who are in charge of this site hate the fact that trans people and furries did that and still hang around here, so they're targeted for suspension more often than the average rule breaker.

Ответ для John Scalzi

Doing what I can :)

Ответ для John Scalzi

Another day, another CEO. We aint done yet.

Ответ для John Scalzi

All hail the Alf Hog.

Ответ для John Scalzi

On tumblr we call it firing a few shots into the ground once a month to keep the gentrification away.

Ответ для Jeremy Bearimy

Rent-lowering gunshots

Ответ для John Scalzi
Ответ для John Scalzi

Seems like a good place to leave this classic bit of wisdom:

Ответ для 🍣 Robin Bobcat 🍣

Like, if there's ever a plane crash after one of the big furry conventions, the entire internet goes down.

Ответ для John Scalzi

They help us so much and expect so little in return

Ответ для John Scalzi

I mean, I was used to US having to leave, so it was just really nice to see it work the other way for once.

Ответ для John Scalzi

When I arrived here (among the first 125,000), here were times when my feed would just end. I started following some of "less conventionally acceptable" people and things just sort of took off.

Ответ для John Scalzi

and indeed many of us have already done that, seamlessly transitioning to eg @eurosky.social from which we continue to post but from and to non-US servers

Ответ для Chris Kendall

Just out of curiosity, and me having no clue about the thing you talked about: So you can transfer your account to European servers, but you still are using Bluesky like I do now, or is that a totally different thing?

Ответ для Dirty Boy

Yes exactly; everything gets moved across to different hardware and so to a different jurisdiction but the platform is unchanged, my username is unchanged, my posting history is still intact, it’s all done behind the scenes and is seamless and invisible as far as anyone following me is concerned.

Ответ для Chris Kendall

Thanks for explaining.

Ответ для Dirty Boy

How does this magic work?

Ответ для handmadeby

Oh, never mind. Found the “move” link

Ответ для handmadeby

I have the same question. Where is the move link?

Ответ для Fermi's Political Paradox
Ответ для sarfrin
Ответ для sarfrin

Thank you, I just changed to.eurosky.

Ответ для handmadeby

I have no clue to be honest. Just was curios about the why. But maybe the information you are looking for is elsewhere in this conversation here.

Ответ для Chris Kendall

This sounds great, Chris. Excuse my total ignorance but: how do I actually do this??

Ответ для Kathy Love

All explained here. I’m not especially techy but was able to follow the instructions without too much trouble. eurosky.tech/accounts/mig...

Account migration instructions with EU-HAUL — EuroskyEurosky is a European initiative to build and operate sovereign social web infrastructureeurosky.tech
Ответ для Chris Kendall

Many thanks indeed, Chris. I’m pretty keen to keep my data safely in the EU so I really appreciate this.

Ответ для Chris Kendall

I’ve done similar, but would like readers to know digital sovereignty is > than EU hosting. The data is still accessible globally, the US can still use the CLOUD act or FISA to demand access and it’s VERY hard for local providers to say no. See this as e.g www.google.com/search?q=can...

Google Searchwww.google.com
Ответ для An IT Nerd

It’s possible to be (more) digitally sovereign but needs an unbelievable effort across how all companies involved in the supply chain are owned, financed, operated + a great many hard tech choices So again, I applaud the effort & just want people to understand what they do/don’t get by doing this

Ответ для An IT Nerd

I know you are right, Nerd, but we have to start somewhere! What would you advise as the most effective steps that ordinary people can take?

Ответ для Kathy Love

Moving off US billionaire run services (Facebook, Twitter) to EU hosted alternatives, (eg eurosky ) is a good start & eurosky lists a ton of services equivalent to insta, fb, etc Next step is your email, which is a big leap given how many places have your email, so expect gradual cutover

Ответ для Chris Kendall

Is it an easy transfer when using your own domain Chris?

Ответ для Matthew Gyamtso

Yes, I had to tweak a couple of settings but my hand was held through the process.

Ответ для Chris Kendall

Thanks, I think I'll jump🙏🏻

Ответ для Matthew Gyamtso

Come on in the water’s fine

Ответ для Chris Kendall

Thanks - I just tried. Will try again in the morning. "The migration service is currently at capacity (5 active migrations). Please try again in a few minutes." Minor annoyance that message kicks you back to the start.

Ответ для Matthew Gyamtso

Succeeded this morning yay. Slightly nervous when it sat for half an hour at 5am doing nothing but all went through.

Ответ для Dirty Boy

No that's exactly what is. The plan is to eventually also host a bluesky backend in the EU as well, but you can already host your account there.

Ответ для Thoth

But it still will be one platform on the surface? Just a little bit safer in case one country goes against it, turns off the bluesky servers?

Ответ для Dirty Boy

you got it and it's not just countries; the devs wanted to build a network that would be resilient should bsky itself become adversarial

Ответ для Tim

Yeah, in case the US shuts it down, it keeps on running perfectly fine on servers in Spain.

Ответ для Dirty Boy

or if Elon stages a hostile takeover of the Bluesky corporation, everyone can move to Newsky* like nothing ever happened * doesn't exist, but it could if necessary

Ответ для Tim

I don't know. He already has his X. A platform with a lot of people on that still see him as a god like human being. Should be enough to help him with his ego problem.

Ответ для Tim

I mean I don't think we're quite to a point where that's true, but we're getting much closer!

Ответ для Thoth

You'd have to make and store plenty of backups all around the world. That costs money, and needs infrastructure.

Ответ для Thoth

and the important thing is that no matter how close you feel we are to that point, you can set your personal bailout level wherever you like and still have options to flee to

Ответ для Dirty Boy

I meam you might have to go to a different url but yeah, basically. This is still a work in progress but that's the idea.

Ответ для Thoth

It’s already here (as web app, phone app is under development): mu.social

mumu.social
Ответ для François Berjon

And for anyone interested, Eurosky portal has a fairly long list of applications using ATproto (aka "the atmosphere") for all sorts of things. Comes with "made in Europe" labels for those who want such things.

Ответ для François Berjon

nooo, that's a bluesky FRONTend hosted in the EU. It still relies on bluesky's servers to fetch content, do search, etc. There are plans to change this, but they haven't been completed yet.

Ответ для Dirty Boy

A bit technical but you can find more here. "We assume that a Personal Data Server may fail at any time [...] The goal of the AT Protocol is to ensure that a user can migrate their account to a new PDS without the server's involvement."

Protocol Overview - AT ProtocolAn introduction to the AT Protocol.atproto.com
Ответ для Chris Kendall

I am one of the many that have transitioned over

Ответ для John Scalzi

Yeah, if red darkens the horizon of Bluesky, everyone will jump ship for Bluersky as soon as a likely successor arises. Which I believe was actually the intention of the architecture...not for blue specifically, but so if the politics "here" don't appeal, you can make your own space with this tech.

Ответ для John Scalzi

eh, if it actually fully federates, it loses its competitive advantage compared to masto/fediverse, which is simplicity. It is a twitter. If it federates and decentralizes, then it is just a worse mastodon. A worse, more expensive, more complex mastodon.

Ответ для John Scalzi

I've nothing against it but the architecture stuff is stuff that Mastodon already had, possibly moreso. That said, Blacksky might be social media's last best hope

Ответ для weaselproof

Speaking purely from a technical perspective, Mastodon just isn't decentralized enough for a lot of people's liking. ATproto fixed much of those problems.

Ответ для John Scalzi

The architecture is a big part of why I am here, because it mitigates the bad outcome. I left Twitter before Elon's Nazi bullshit. It was a shit site a long time ago and extra is now. And I appreciate that Bsky is built differently. It's not just a different place -- its bones are different.

Ответ для Niko

For sure, looking around here there's a bunch of folks doing interesting stuff with the AT protocol (which this place runs on) separate from Bsky. It's gonna be interesting to see what kind of more properly federated/decentralized social media might develop from it.

Ответ для AtomicPwrdRobot

I might consider it for protect, but I need to do more learnin and also have a personal version before I even consider federation and multi-platform shit.

Ответ для John Scalzi

Not to mention I can just block the chuds and life goes on.

Ответ для John Scalzi

The architecture also makes it much harder for brands and influencers to advertise and make money here. Which is good but also bad But mostly good

Ответ для John Scalzi

Yeah, theoretically does a lot of heavy lifting there since atproto's architecture is so top-heavy. Blacksky has built the most independent infrastructure separate from bsky and they still use bsky's systems the majority of the time b/c running your own AT relay is *damn fucking expensive.*

Ответ для ceremus
T

Does anyone know how much Bluesky is losing a quarter? I’m enjoying Bluesky, but I’m quite convinced it’s not economically viable to run a non-predatory social media service, so I’m always waiting for the next shoe to drop.

Ответ для tlwest

The maintainers of blacksky would have a better idea, but based on the user volume and the number of duplicated operations across the platform, it's ugly. Bluesky was built by coiners, it's decentralized as in blockchain, meaning it's actually quite centralized and very inefficient.

Ответ для ceremus

As much as people don't want to hear it the actually sustainable way to do decentralized communal social media is mastodon/fediverse. For all of its problems it is actually decentralized and doesn't come with the albatross of atproto's incredibly expensive overhead.

Ответ для John Scalzi

Y'know what would be exceptionally funny? If Bluesky gets Twitter enshittified, trans furry invasion of Nostr.

Nothing is more fragile than the male ego.

Now to be fair to them they stayed a little while and tried to argue against copyright and THEN ran away like scared little babies when reality came down on them.

Counting my blessings that I've never even heard of that place

What the eldrirch fuck is a Nostr?

Ответ для OneWingedSparrow

I don't like watching dog porn. Can I have a choice? Or the hairy fat body and tralalà of some bear guy while I'm eating breakfast. Or some obese creature in diaper eating some diarrhea. Some examples.

I read that as "they went to Nostril" and I wondered what that was. To be honest, I wondered what the Nostr was as well as I've never heard of it.

Ответ для Christopher Robin

nostr is a ridicously simple protocol made by a cryptochud from brazil after being frustrated with mastodon and secure scuttlebutt (also very obscure piece of software) jack gave 14 bitcoins to the protocol creator and yeah

Ответ для fizzylimesoda

the only difference between both bluesky and mastodon, moderation in nostr is optional, which may lead to either fascists flooding your feed or just straight up CSAM basically from mypersonal experience, my feed had nostr developers, other cryptochuds and posts with "GM"

Ответ для fizzylimesoda

another thing i want to say is that the cryptochud that created nostr is an insane fan of olavo de carvalho (which is basically just brazillian alex jones) and his site even has a mirror of olavo's site

Ответ для fizzylimesoda

I was more just making a joke, but appreciate the info. That noted: that shot sounds shady as fuck and even if id BEEN legitimately asking id nope the fuck out about 30 seconds into the sales pitch

I like to think we did a good job then, we need to do the same now to these weird AI goons that have exploded in population (more than usual) over the last four or five days. I don't know what AI influencer talking head said something about bsky being welcoming to them but they need to go.

I'm not sure I agree with Jack about tech people being scared of or hating furries. There are lots of tech furries. I have stories.

Ответ для Timberwoof Lupindo

The difference between people in tech, and 'tech bros'.

Every school kid knows that trans folks and furries are to racists and nazis what garlic and crucifixes are to vampires and werewolves.

A userbase whomst uses delightful syntactical antiquities such as “whomst” is why I’m here and Jack Twitter is not.

Ответ для ⭐︎ Kay Hanley ⭐︎

Well put, madam.

Ответ для Seamus Blackley

Lyricist gonna lyric 🤷🏼‍♀️

Ответ для ⭐︎ Kay Hanley ⭐︎

Them as what use whomst are rules-upmakers up with which I will not put. 😜

Had to look that up. I was in the second wave (I think) to leave Twitter. Foundered about on Mastodon a while, but there was simply no engagement. Glad I found Bluesky. Fascinating to see the ecosystems & what works for whom.

You're welcome

There were only about 100k folks on Bsky when I joined, and it was like landing in Oz. Weird, colorful, unexpected, joyfully different. If you arrived here with an open mind & heart, it was very very welcoming.

(Obiwan, with the thousand yard stare) Nostr…that’s a name I haven’t heard for a long long time

and now he's on here and namesearches so (he faved a post where I joked about him always seeming like he's on qualuudes)

Ответ для Zoë “Baddie Proctor” Quinn

Well, bless his heart.

Ответ для Zoë “Baddie Proctor” Quinn

I like how any way you look at it, it must be a confession.

Ответ для Zoë “Baddie Proctor” Quinn

if he can get Quaaludes in 2026 I am impressed