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The "duped voter" narrative is a comforting myth. If only we had better messaging. The reality is tens of millions of voters looked at a platform of mass deportation, ethnic cleansing, state violence, and the dismantling of civil rights, clearly understood it, and said, "Yes, that is what I want."

733,6 тыс.815

Dropping the "information silo" excuse removes the burden of having to "educate" or "save" people who have no fucking desire to be saved. We need to acknowledge that fascist impulses in American politics aren't a virus infecting the body politic; it's the DNA of the nation expressing itself.

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11 прямых ответов · 132 сообщений

I agree with you , but I think the reality is that it isn’t an American problem but a human one. America is just everyone from everywhere all dumped into one place. And everyone brought their prejudices with them.

The information deficit model for voter/consumer behaviour was found wanting decades ago when it came to climate change. Facts do not often play a major role in people's motivations.

The Deficit ModelOf the models devised to study the science of science communication, the deficit model has probably been around the longest. It also offers an easy solution to explain failures of communication, an…speakingscienceesecom.wordpress.com

The horror of sitting across from a Trump voter is the realization that they do not believe in universal human rights. Simple as. They believe in a tiered, racist and patriarchical system of humanity, and they're voting to ensure they remain at the top of it.

Ответ для Chad Loder

This always leaves me feeling like... We're so fundamentally different that it seems like the human race has split into two distinct groups. I'll never understand them.

Ответ для Boodreaux's Fjords

Those people have always been among us. This photo is from Boston, 1976, over busing Black kids to "white neighborhoods" for school. We're just not old enough to remember racists and haters being so emboldened and loud.

Ответ для hotoynoodle

It's true, I know. I did like it when they were ashamed to show their true colors. They're just so afraid of everyyyyything.

Ответ для Boodreaux's Fjords

that part is hilarious to me. grown ass men afraid to ride a subway, etc.

Ответ для hotoynoodle

More afraid of a little girl using they/them pronouns than getting abused by a pedophile. Republican voters have a broken threat detector.

Ответ для hotoynoodle

Thank you for showing that the North was/is not immune to this.

Ответ для Boodreaux's Fjords

You understand them perfectly. You just grew up. You were a little kid once. And then you learned the world isn't fair and you're not always right or best, and made peace with it. They can't understand us because they've never been us but we can understand them because we were all kids once.

Ответ для A cat like that

authoritarianism doesn't come from children it comes from adults who hate children

Ответ для Chad Loder

You got that right

Ответ для Chad Loder

Almost every discussion that I have with a trump voter, the term "those people" comes up. It's so ingrained into their being.

Ответ для Chad Loder

It's fascinating the degree to which these people are just callous assholes. I was raised to believe the bully was wrong, always. I know in my heart that cruelty is corrosive to the spirit, no one had to teach me that... Yet here they are, embracing a cruel bully as some kind of asshole messiah.

Ответ для Chad Loder
M

Except that a large number of them will always be looking up at the top

Ответ для Markhail

There looking down at us. Whether directly because we're their children or sisters or moms, or indirectly because they think they're above us in the abstract

Ответ для Chad Loder

Spot on.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Strip away the "economic anxiety" and "traditional values" and you're left with people voting for a monster because the monster promised to eat the people they believe must be eaten. The cruelty is not a side effect of their politics so much as the glue that holds their entire worldview together.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Ideas follow the material conditions not the other way around. Yes many people are unsalvageable. But that doesn't mean that changing the material conditions to be more equitable won't produce less fascists, and the other way around. Fascism isn't inate, it's engineered.

Ответ для Marxism no Jutsu

Maybe changing the material conditions will make a difference, but for Trump voters that equals taking money away from them.

Ответ для Irenē

Yeah

Ответ для Marxism no Jutsu

Hmm the CONDITIONS for fascism can be engineered, it remains an individual choice however. Always has. US MAGA-Republicans are nasty pieces of shit. They now have the conditions to express that enshittedness. Overton window.

Ответ для brianmaxhouston

No such thing as individual choice. Maybe outliers, but most people are taught their politics by their parents, their church, their bosses, their friends at school. Again, outliers exist, but you're 99% wrong.

Ответ для Marxism no Jutsu

I live in a pluralistic democracy, not basic democracy. 100% guarantee you the church (😅) has nothing to do with my politics. I do not vote as my parents did. I could not tell you what my bosses politics were and how I voted at 18 is not what I vote now. You are 100% wrong and bang of fash off you.

Ответ для brianmaxhouston

Outlier.

Ответ для Marxism no Jutsu

😅 nah just not choosing to be a fash.

Ответ для brianmaxhouston

History says you're wrong. You're literally an outlier and pretending it was your own choice and not who surrounded you.

Ответ для Marxism no Jutsu

And yes still not choosing to be a fash. Even if I have not been influenced by those ‘around me’

Ответ для Marxism no Jutsu

And Trump supporters would kill and/or die before letting the world become more equitable because they’d rather screw themselves than let the people they hate get anything.

Ответ для Gentle Ox (Dave)

This is why China forces reactionaries into schools lol But that's "authoritarian" better let these monsters run free have as much money and political power as they can take.

Ответ для Gentle Ox (Dave)

Sadly true.

Ответ для Chad Loder

traditional values - genocide, slavery

Ответ для form...

"This is NOT what America is about. America is about *opens history book* uh oh *Frantically starts flipping though pages* uh oh. oh no. no no no. uh oh" (Quoting grosdoriane.bsky.social )

"Back To The Old Grind"oriane (@grosdoriane.bsky.social)im awsomegrosdoriane.bsky.social
Ответ для mathiastck

I feel like within my lifetime this joke won't even be funny anymore cuz people will be like "what's a history book?"

Ответ для 🗑️ UNCAИИY (they/them) NEW ALBUM OUT NOW

I am kind of worried about data that only exists in volatile media, like failing hard drives. I'm glad the internet archive exists, but it seems vulnerable. I go to: www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/ Every once in awhile to verify SOMEONE is backing stuff up. #DataHoarder

It's A Digital Disease!This is a sub that aims at bringing data hoarders together to share their passion with like minded people.www.reddit.com
Ответ для mathiastck

Absolutely. I recently started donating monthly to Internet Archive because that place is needed now more than ever and AI is making it more difficult for them to do their important work. www.msn.com/en-us/news/t...

Ответ для 🗑️ UNCAИИY (they/them) NEW ALBUM OUT NOW

Yes it seems very bad that people ignore #robots.txt when they train AI.

Ответ для Chad Loder

they vote for monsters because they are, it is that simple

Ответ для Chad Loder

It's also true that the American political system was designed, explicitly, to perpetuate minority rule by an elite. The founders were, by and large, elite, wealthy land speculators, merchants, and enslavers. They feared majority rule because their wealth depended on them owning land and people.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Therefore, high time to put forth a new constitutional order that works for all of us. Mechanics are almost impossible, yes, but we must at least think about what we want in detail

Ответ для Chad Loder

It's also because capitalism, therefore American culture, promotes Social Darwinism. Everything is a competition. Winning is everything and you only know if you're winning if someone else is losing harder than you. Capitalism=democracy as a belief system is poison.

Ответ для Chad Loder

I think too many Democrats still yearn for a return to the norms that got us here. Playing defense. Trumpism will outlast Trump. Trumpism 2.0 will likely be more disciplined, more bureaucratically competent, and even more deeply steeped in the language of national, white, Christian purification.

Ответ для Chad Loder

If for no other reason than spite, I don’t think we call it Trumpism. Too much credit. He was an opportunist and a racist, but I don’t think he came in with a Christian nationalist agenda. They were united in hate but not aim. He just wanted money and power. But that sect road his coattails.

Ответ для Britt

I guess the distinction I’m making is any Trump legacy to me is about corruption and hate, but mostly corruption. I think in the future I’d explain that white Christian nationalism surfaced and coalesced under his rule. I think it’ll survive bc that movement has been empowered.

Ответ для Britt

I feel like I’m NOT articulating this well. There’s a different element we will have to undermine to get to the root of this problem. I don’t think all Trump supporters are Christian nationalists. Many are just crooks. I think we have to fix two distinct courses going forward.

Ответ для Chad Loder

So, JD Vance.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Count me among those who believe that we need to drive these fascists out of power, stooping to dirty tricks if necessary. Strip their assets, hound them out of public life, make them afraid to even express their beliefs in public. Drive them into exile before the only alternative is mass violence.

Ответ для Chad Loder
Ответ для Nothin’ but Blue Skies from now on

MFBO Make Fascists Bleed Out

Ответ для Chad Loder

If we just used the existing tools for accountability (criminal and civil lawsuits) we don’t even need dirty tricks - but it will require that Dems stop peddling their bipartisan unity fantasies and call their elected colleagues out as the criminals they are.

Ответ для Robin Broshi

With respect, absolutely not. The current Constitutional order has been demonstrated to be untenable, and limiting ourselves to "existing tools" is to hamstring ourselves by shackling resistance to an obsolete and ineffective model.

Ответ для Voltaireon - 5 caustic French philosophers in a trenchcoat

This isn't to say that the PRINCIPLES laid out in the Constitution are necessarily obsolete, just that the governance model it provides has failed, and requiring us to stay within those failed guardrails isn't imo a useful limitation.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Before they finish their bunkers, are all living in military bases, reshape the military, staff up their private police force, suspend the elections over some lie & plunder all our precious national resources for personal gain & we lose them forever. We don’t have that much time.

Ответ для Christy B

And whatever the fuck is happening here y’all bsky.app/profile/zete...

Zeteo

If you’ve criticized a corporation, protested ICE, or publicly condemned Trump’s Iran war, your posts could be monitored and passed to the FBI. Leaked emails show Trump’s admin is training police to help it target left-wing dissent. Read Dan Boguslaw’s latest: zeteo.com/p/trump-fbi-...

Ответ для Christy B

And I’m not being hyperbolic about the elections. They may not outright suspend them but they could certainly cause enough mischief to be highly problematic or refuse to recognize the results in Congress & who will stop them now?

Ответ для Christy B

Yup. And a lot of his lackey’s have already moved into homes on military bases. Def kinda feels like they’re preparing to need to be protected.

Ответ для Beef Supreme

And Hegseth is reshaping the military to be white, male & Christian nationalist loyalists. And ICE has an obscene $150B in funding, exponentially more than ever & more than any other federal LE agency. They’re already stress testing & normalizing putting them in airports & at polling places.

Ответ для Christy B

And they are selling off & plundering huge amounts of our public lands without public hearings or input from the public. There has been reporting on this but those stories aren’t making the headlines.

Ответ для Christy B

Most of which was given to them by democrats

Ответ для Christy B

Yeesh, @corruptario.bsky.social, does this sound like any slightly more local criminals? 🤬

Ответ для CJ is still sad ⚾⚕️😷

Sadly yes. Very much so.

Ответ для Christy B

I'm more worried about the public forces of police. Their retreating to military bases and bunkers isn't a "win" for them either, the whole point is an intolerance in public spaces and society writ-large. The more isolated, the more brittle, the less effective they can be.

Ответ для Revanchist

But the more that the remaining entrenched institutions coddle this fascist movement, the more trouble we are in. The more compartmentalized through forces of police and increasingly authoritarian state parties that it is, the more intense repression, persecution, and sectarian violence will be.

Ответ для Chad Loder

I’ve said a few times I don’t see how we end this without violence, and/or maybe the help of another country coming in Much of what you discuss is in human nature. America was hateful pre-WW2 and didn’t squash the fascists here when they had the chance after it. That was a choice and it’s festered

Ответ для Salty Mom

I’ve also told Dems they need to resort to Republican tricks for the greater good. That’s why I support what Virginians doing about redistricting. It’s out of the GOP playbook. Goose and gander Rs expect Dems to play by norms & rules. We can’t anymore. If there is a loophole, Dems need to use it

Ответ для Salty Mom

The republicans and fascist groups are out-organizing the dens on redistricting and using Obama and Spanberger's own past words to do it. I'm already hearing from people that it's working on people they know. Violence being what ends evrything is inevitable.

Ответ для KLo

Even without the dishonest marketing the Republicans are going, I don’t think the YES votes have it in the bag. The map honestly makes me cringe and I’m not thrilled with the messaging that postcard campaigns are using; they read like everyone knows exactly WHY VA is doing it

Ответ для Salty Mom

I can tell you not everyone does.

Ответ для Salty Mom

I'm in Arlington and when I saw the map for the first time it was shocking to me. Then I remembered this is what gerrymandering looks like. Then I heard that Terry Mcauliffe's wife is aiming to be installed as the new rep for district 7. I'm so not ok with all this but I voted yes. The "democracy

Ответ для Chad Loder

Yes!!

Ответ для Chad Loder

Well said...

Ответ для Chad Loder

this is necessary for all fascists, conservative assuming there's a difference, and all the Liberals that supported them through inaction bureaucracy or triangulation

Ответ для Chad Loder

I have been trying to articulate what MAGA voters are & why they are going to have to be dealt with at some point. You have stated it perfectly. These voters are fundamentally incompatible with the US, they hate the US constitution and the rule of law.

Ответ для emblcgb

I am not sure what dealing with them looks like, but we cannot continue to go on like this.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Fucking thank you for saying it out loud.

Ответ для Chad Loder

The only moral question involved in evaluating whether an adversarial action should be taken against a Republican is whether it will positively advance leftist causes. There's plenty of stuff that feels right at the time, but has counterproductive ramifications...but because Reps deserve better? Nah

Ответ для Chad Loder

I want all their money and assets seized and have them be funneled into government programs and reparations for all of us who have been fucked over by them.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Do what Democratic Germany did after the war, outlaw all symbols of Nazi Germany. It was cancerous pure hate.

Ответ для Chad Loder

We've gotta start using people who thought Sherman was a softy or we're gonna need people who think Dresden got off easy

Ответ для Chad Loder

That's what the Simple Sabotage Field Manual recommends.

Ответ для Chad Loder

One of my cousins, who I love, voted for Trump. She is a single mother of three biracial kids & the black sheep of her Trump voting family. Her vote was born out of fear of social & economic alienation from her family, & anti choice religious indoctrination. There’s hope for some of them.

Ответ для Chad Loder

The problem is if you drive fascism out with reform, those reforms will fail and fascism will be back. The only way out of fascism is to eradicate every vestige of fascism and fascism adjacent institutions.

Ответ для Help me, Kim Jung Un you're my only hope.

There is no permanent defeat for fascism. It is not like a microbe that you can eliminate from the earth. Fascism is a built-in feature of liberal democracies.

Ответ для Chad Loder

This is a point that I fear far too few have grasped. American fascism is poised to molt its MAGA skin for a much more competent, disciplined & cruel mvmt that's gathered itself together just off stage from the reality TV mobsterism of Trump.

Ответ для Uzza

I think you have it backwards. MAGA molted from polite, professional Blue fascism. The ol’ down-home folksy Bush fascism. The aw-shucks Reagan fascism. The fascism was always there. Trump just rent the veil.

Ответ для Chad Loder

I disagree with this, only in that many Dems want to keep the status quo because they want to retain power. IRA and BBB could get passed under Biden, but not the John Lewis Voting Rights Act? Uncap the House, instantly changes EC math, likely retains the House for Dems for a decade.

Ответ для Son of Herby

And no election finance reform to counter act Citizens United. The norms sucked and they didn't hold.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Trumpism is the last gasp of a declining demographic.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Indeed. This didn’t all start with Trump.

Ответ для Chad Loder
J

this is why it must be stopped and called out at every turn. others will want to make use of the same shit. longer it continues harder it will be to ever stop. rule of law, truth and reason....instead of lawless hate and lies

Ответ для Chad Loder

I don't think this is even a "doomer" take, because despite all of that, it's going to have much less of the veneer of celebrity/populism, that Trump has exploited to great effect. The more the mask drops, the more virulent the threat, but the less complacent the opposition.

Ответ для Revanchist

Part of the success of beating them back is going to be getting people to confront it at home, in their lives: No, you don't have to put up with the bigoted pedophile uncle or grandpa in your life just because Trump got elected. You can tell them to fuck right off, and have a better life without.

Ответ для Chad Loder

I honestly don’t know if it will. There seems to be something intrinsically… blatantly illogical about it. And even…cartoonish. That’s not to say a slice of people won’t always be vulnerable but as much as I hate him 1 thing I will give Trump is he has that X factor that is pretty rare.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Donald Trump is just a symptom; we can cut off his head, but there are a hundred more ready to take his place. These are the sons and daughters of the Manifest Destiny forebears, it doesn't occur to them that they could be wrong -- Trump is a means to an end for them

Ответ для Chad Loder

The decedents of these people are still here & they pass on these values & beliefs. We want to believe humans keep evolving but we really don’t change that much.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Ironic given they'd fought a war to get away from a minority elite of weathly land owners, merchants, and enslavers...

Ответ для Sean of the guitar camp

No, they fought a war to get away from people who didn't think they were important enough for seats in Parliament and kept telling them treaties with the locals actually mattered and the had to stop killing and robbing the neighbors so much.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Something notable I started to dig into is, the most notable colonizers being puritans is integrated into far more than just yearly stories filled with misinformation. Puritan legal code was the basis of Massachusetts law for awhile, the same law John Adams learned.

Ответ для Olivia Just Wants Tech To Be Fun Again

Elements of puritan legal code are embedded in the constitution and bill of rights. So on top of the elite ruling, you have influence by an extreme religious faction written into our very laws, let alone New England culture. There's probably more to this throughline, but...yep.

Ответ для Chad Loder

They never even considered majority rule or true democracy allowing universal suffrage. It had never existed before and only arguably exists in some countries today.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Or, to quote @adamserwer.bsky.social, "the cruelty is the point."

Ответ для Derrell Durrett

💯

Ответ для Chad Loder
N

I think “to eat the people they want to be eaten” not “… they believe must be eaten”. Many are in it for the cruelty and for punching down, not because they see it as regrettable necessity, but because they think it’s fun and entertaining.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Your half of the uniparty made the same promises whats your excuse

Ответ для Chad Loder
J

Couldn’t agree more.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Winning is motivating your own voters, converting persuadables and demoralizing opponents into staying home. Robust promises of delivering on an agenda and demeaning your opponent’s is consistently the best strategy for all three. Instead we get moderation that does the opposite across the board.

Ответ для Reconstruction 3 Enthusiast

Voters backfill their choice by saying they voted for the moderate after being persuaded by their actual campaign message.

Ответ для Chad Loder

I'm more horrified that the Supreme Court are mostly Trump voters who don't believe in universal human rights and keep nullifying parts of our Constitution because FOX News told them to.

Ответ для Chad Loder

That was the thing that caused existential crisis for me from Trump 1.0-2.0. They weren’t conned! They love the hate. They love the bullying. Only went along with democracy until they got their guy & now they’re fine throwing it all away & letting the worst people destroy us.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Yes--but the irony is that most of those voters never were "at the top of it" nor will they EVER be. They just thought they were entitled to it, with the political rhetoric reinforcing that belief, while the actual people on top robbed them again and again and ensured they would NEVER be at the top.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Except many, many Republican voters ARE the "bottom tier". They think stepping on "others" will help lift them.

Ответ для Chad Loder

It's the individualism their parents groomed into them. This was a very long time in the making. They're desperate for their own survival they're not gaf about everyones ability to survive. Regardless our Republic is already ☠️. Center your msg to oppressive legislation. bsky.app/profile/vlf7...

🔥🗽🔥SoCal Redhead🔥🗽🔥

Spread & save this. It's literally how we fix the system. We've all just been a part of the longest social science experiment to stop history from repeating. Oppression is why it repeats. How can we learn as long as education remains a privilege and varies?

Ответ для Chad Loder

Their fantasy is that they are on top. The reality is they are bottoms, but because they are children of abusive alcoholics that status feels unquestioningly normal to them.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Neither do liberals You believe in class based exploitation liberty and freedom for the capitalist class to take liberty and freedom from the other 99% of us

Ответ для Chad Loder

Which is crazy since most of them will never be at the top

Ответ для Chad Loder

This has always been true of every republican forever.

Ответ для Chad Loder

My Trump-thumping next-door neighbor went on a tirade this morning as I was getting in the car, furious Trump didn’t nuke Iran and bring about the Apocalypse. He believes it would have brought Jesus back. News flash, I told him: Hate-fueled bigots like you will be left behind.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Many don't care if they're at the top, so long as the hierarchy exists, and there's someone beneath them.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Yes. They are.

Ответ для Chad Loder

Pretty much the ideology of the Confederacy.

Ответ для Chad Loder

they want us dead

Pretty much. As I've been saying, these folks aren't going anywhere even after this regime is removed.

Should not be shocking at all. It is a country founded on genocide, slavery, and colonialism. White supremacy is baked into the foundations.

I don't think it's as simple as people being "duped", but rather being enmeshed in worldviews that get shaped by interconnected infospheres. While much of the rot is sui generis, we have systems in this country that have perpetuated this worldview, and a proper reconstruction can dismantle them.

How arou you going to CRISPR out these assholes, then?

When our most precious document declared that Black people are 3/5 of a person and it is still celebrated as a Great Compromise, we can’t pretend that there’s not terrible darkness in contemporary American society.

I dont know if its finland too or that after soviet union fell all foreign influence was exclusively by neoliberals or fascists (what is the difference neoliberalism is just slow shock therapy masked as common sense)

The group we're talking about here is ~30-35% of the electorate. Real, and scary. Not the DNA of the nation, however.

Then why did Obama win on a platform of redistributing wealth and national healthcare? Condemning feels good. I get that. But it fundamentally answers no questions about how to solve a problem. These people don’t need to want salvation to be useful idiots for those in power