weisselberger: Elon's fondness for the Odyssey makes a lot…

Well, perhaps "shifty" - often translated "well-traveled" or "wandering". Could also be "complicated." My Greek is really rusty, had to look it up. Odd though, that Elon would admire someone who so longed to get back to his monogamous wife and his son, both of whom he adored. Not Elon's style.

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AlexPretti'sGhost

23 июл., 16:59

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%80%...

πολύτροπος - Wiktionary, the free dictionaryen.wiktionary.org

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weisselberger

23 июл., 17:02

um cf. Hippias Minor

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AlexPretti'sGhost

23 июл., 17:17

"πολύτροπον: ... (even Plato, Plato!, seems to struggle Hippias Minor 364e). H is relying on this ambiguity, one who often turns and is turned about. Pulleyn’s phrase as being “of many turns” is perhaps the most apposite English translation" philologicalcrocodile.wordpress.com/2023/06/04/t...

The First Lines of the OdysseyIn which, sponsored by a sangiovese, the Croc ruminates and rambles on the opening of Homer’s Odyssey.philologicalcrocodile.wordpress.com

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weisselberger

23 июл., 17:16

I defer to your expertise.

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AlexPretti'sGhost

23 июл., 17:03

What version translates that as "pathological liar?" Emily Wilson has "complicated;" R. Fagles "man of many twists and turns;" Fitzgerald "skilled in all ways of contending;"Lattimore "man who was driven far journeys; Chapman "many a way" etc etc.

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weisselberger

23 июл., 17:02

Plato

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AlexPretti'sGhost

23 июл., 17:11

Plato did not translate the Odyssey. If you are referring to Emily's substack on Plato's discussion of the first line only, she says, "Plato's usage suggests that to him at least, it definitely doesn't mean "wise", because it's distinct from Nestor's quality of sophia. Of course Plato's

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AlexPretti'sGhost

23 июл., 17:11

values aren't Homer's, and there's no reason to project these later prose authors back onto the original Odyssey"

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weisselberger

23 июл., 17:12

There are so many things I want to say right now.

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AlexPretti'sGhost

23 июл., 17:17

Please, do say them in Greek, I've only had two years worth, but do go on ...

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AlexPretti'sGhost

23 июл., 17:04

PS - No fan of Elon, just of translation.

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weisselberger

23 июл., 17:01

Little Girl's 'Um Um Ok' Side Eye ReactionALT: Little Girl's 'Um Um Ok' Side Eye Reactionstatic.klipy.com

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AlexPretti'sGhost

23 июл., 17:17

Nice try though

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colwellis

23 июл., 17:22

It means “many turnings” literally so can be translated multiple ways, as you mention. An important point is that it is not a heroic epithet - heroic males in this culture are stubbornly set in one direction. To turn many ways IS shifty, unreliable and untrustworthy. BUT he survives, gets home. Wins

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AlexPretti'sGhost

23 июл., 17:24

I'm off to start the day. I'll leave you to it :)

Cshortle

23 июл., 16:44

Another loser said Odysseus complained too much... Reminded me of Trump saying the Declaration of Independence was a document about ‘love & respect’. None of them have ever actually read anything.