Обсуждение

Jeremy Corbyn is (and always has been) a moderate social democrat. If you were to show Labour's 2017 manifesto for instance to a Scandinavian social democrat and told them it was hard-left they'd laugh at you.

Corbyn was a useless prick, but he wasn't anywhere close to hard left. At all.

If you look at the policy they enact, and not just base your opinions on ✨vibes✨, it's clear to see that there are no centre-left MPs in Labour. The fight back was all done by the Labour Right who now refuse to brook any dissenting opinionsin exactly the same way Boris/Kemi do.

Not unique so must be systemic. The fish rots from the centre right policing its right flank. Not just in UK bsky.app/profile/mroo...

What is “hard left”? Would that b a properly funded #nhs & schools, water & energy plus other public services renationalised? If it is, can we be more “hard left” please. Labour MPs, like most of Westminster, are not worth a toss. When are we going to end the gravy train that is the House of Lords?

Ha ha ha hard left?

If there's one thing the centre left & all shades of right agree on, it's absolutely despising the left...

Labour isn't centre left. They have a couple of left wing MPs. That's it. They are a right wing party who are using right wing policies

Being bald does not make you smart

A similar thing is happening in Australia.

The reality is that there are not many centre right MPs left in the Tories. Johnson insisted on 2019 candidates going full-square behind his Brexit deal and by 2024 PPCs were expected to endorse a manifesto already flirting with ECHR withdrawal and touting national service.

‘Centre left’ Labour? 😬

The UK Labour Party is now just - without a hint of hyperbole - a right-wing party. Either that, or pretty much the entirety of capitalist politics is now left-wing, and the authoritarians are just normal right-wing.

Is the hard-left in the room with us now?

You’re an idiot 🙏

Well, there is a definite pattern in the comments! Have to say I agree: me and my cohort have never been so enthused and engaged by a party leader as we were by Corbyn. It felt honest, principled and based on fairness. All the people who rejected it - did you enjoy the Johnson train wreck?

I don't see much difference in process here. Both parties have moved significantly right, and purged MPs who tried to resist it. Most European countries (even Scotland) have some sort of 'social democrats' alongside Greens on the left. But now England doesn't.

Labour “dragged to the hard left by Corbyn”? 😂😂😂 The only “principle” Labour MPs fought for was Zionism.

I somewhat hyperbolically called Starmer the most dangerous man in Europe. He cemented the damage to the UK and was a far right superspreader. Burnham is sadly a rancid shyster himself behind the used car salesman patter. Agree Badenmoch is a major threat to returning to sane democracy.

Nah. When Corbyn was in, the centre left in the Labour party was still *there*. Johnson most egregiously, but also May and Sunak, simply got rid of the moderate voices in the Tory Party largely due to Brexit disagreements. So there simply aren't prominent centre voices in the Tories to oppose.

This also fits in with the Reform campaign that is trying to portray Farage as “just a conservative” - the right are naturally inclined to go further to the right - and keep going. Farage is also about as much “just” a conservative” as the Titanic is “just” a bit damp.

We are in the mess we are in because purported liberals aligned with the right from 2010-2019, undermined two Labour leaders thereby ensuring Brexit and austerity.

What was „hard left“ then? Moderate policies to the right of Ted Heath. Absurd designation.

Seems very American. 'We can go as hard-right as we like, cos where else you going to go?' She's obviously relying on a Reform collapse and increasingly right-wing media, but IMO it forgets that the Lib Dems exist & a savvy Labour leader might hoover up disaffecfed voters.

Considering Burnham is going to enact policy to push sick and disabled folk into poverty and death, would you not consider this Labour Party far right? Because it’s looking like that.

Talk about living in a bubble, Ian! Jesus wept! 🤣

Corbyn wasnt hard left.

What traditions and principles are those? The ones encapsulated perfectly by Peter Mandelson?

CORRECTION: when Labour was dragged to the left by Corbyn, the centre-right Labour MPs fought for their "traditions" and their "principles". Thereby ending up with a man without principles as the leader.

Corbyn didn't institute a purge not one single MP was deselected at his behest - unlike the purge which took place under Starmer. That's the difference.

Corbyn was a perfectly mainstream social democrat, both by European standards and by the standards of what British people, when asked their opinions, actually want. The idea that any of this is "hard left" should be well beneath somebody who is often a sensible and thoughtful commentator.

There's like four left Labour MPs. The others all want to slash immigration and harm the disabled

Corbyn built the Labour party to the largest membership in decades. He was soft left. Right wing Labour MPs stabbed him in the back, briefed against him in the right wing press, lied to him, and about him. Not a time to be proud of. Not democratic. It revealed that all the PLP cared about was power.

I want to say that’s because the centre-right has more ‘career’ politicians, but from personal example Ken Clarke at least was a very dedicated constituency MP. In the mid-70s he helped my parents and their neighbours successfully prevent their houses being bulldozed by property developers.

I don’t disagree about Badenoch, but I think it’s lazy to describe Corbyn as hard left. Yes, we know his earlier history and yes, he had undeniable tankie tendencies, but on the domestic front, the 2017 manifesto was a model of mainstream, euro-style social democracy.

To be fair, majority of the "one nation" Conservative MPs were purged from the party during the Johnson regime leaving only the most extreme or most vapid to scrabble for crumbs

Lol.

Do you really believe this or are you just trying to push a narrative? Like, are you genuinely that stupid?

“Hard left”… in what way? Thanks.

@iandunt.bsky.social getting high on "Burnham gas", is part of the metropolitan liberal elite. Re: "centre-left Labour MPs fought for their traditions and their principles". No. Corbyn was shafted by right-wing Labour MPs. There's no left/centre-left in the Labour Party. #VoteGreen #TaxTheRich

Burnham is doing the rights bidding. Punch down instead of up.

Labour is just another corporate owned, right-wing party. If you think Labour under Corbyn was "hard keft" whatever that means, you probably think Atlee was a communist.

You lost me at hard left. What was hard left about his social democratic policies, all fully funded. Today our papers are filled with immigrants bad stories and people believe it. Then it was Corbyn bad Different people fall for different scams but its the same people spinning the different lies

This is pretty ludicrous even for you Ian

In fairness a bunch of them stood against the party and lost. Idk who the centre right in parliament even is. When people talk about James Cleverly as centre right, you realise the purge already happened. This is bolting the door so they can't easily return.

Have there been any moderate, centre right Tories since Thatcher purged the Wets?

I'm not sure that's so much due to the strength of anyone's convictions, so much as individuals picking the in-group that looks the strongest. Tories have over-inflated the threat from Reform, so believe that Reform-ish behaviour is the strongest. Corbyn appeared weak, so CL Labour took over..

Even the old-fashioned 'one nation' Tories were too accustomed and too addicted to power ever to rock the boat of a Tory govt. no matter how hard it tacks to the right. Now there's none of them left, any push to the right is against an open door.

I see that you’re still a prime incubator of Corbyn Derangement Syndrome Ian.

I mean, that’s one way to describe how the Labour right sabotaged two elections, but I wouldn’t call it principles.

Fought for their traditions and values...of explicitly endorsing war live on live TV, allowing 450,000 children to languish in poverty for two years, cutting benefits for disabled people, introducing anti-trans laws more extreme than may Republican-controlled US states, losing 1500 council seats...

Ridiculous thing to say that Corbyn dragged the party to the hard left. He’s a socialist (not hard left) and he was elected. I’m sick and tired of journalists stating shit as fact. Really disappointed in you. I generally admire your thinking and love your podcast but you’re losing all credibility.

‘Dragged to the hard left’ What on earth are you talking about? Neo-Liberalism and Zionism has destroyed the Labour Party. Read some history 🤦🏻‍♀️

Hard left? You haven't got a fucking clue 🤡

Why do you say "hard left" as a pejorative? bsky.app/profile/atul...

Tories under Badenoch will implode into oblivion Bring it on

Wow. You are not normally as absurd and far right as to suggest a bit of mild social democracy is “hard left”. Give your head a wobble.