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I went to journalism school. I have a degree in this shit. I had one of the great editorial page editors and writers I’ve ever encountered for a professor, twice. And I gotta tell you: they do not teach you to studiously avoid calling racism or genocide by their names. That’s NYTimes making Choices.

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42 прямых ответов · 66 сообщений

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I'm consistently troubled by why we let those with the incentive to pacify journalism's language be the ones who dictate journalism's language.

Yes. Ffs yes.

It's appalling what's happened to our two best newspapers.

Picture me banging my imaginary gavel shouting; "Sustained!"

One of the defining moments in my life was getting an NCTJ which had rigorous standards for ethics & following standards, requiring continuous reading to keep you up to date on ever-changing media law. When I got to the work place, none of that mattered, in fact it was better if you forgot it all.

Ответ для Evolve to Crab 🦀 🏳️‍⚧️

I was a student, 12 years ago, when the death of Lucy Meadows happened. I was naive & was shocked when journalists I respected , people who studied the same media law as me, were either silent on the subject or firing off press releases like "yes it's regrettable, but what about freedom of speech?"

Death of Lucy Meadows - Wikipediaen.m.wikipedia.org
Ответ для Evolve to Crab 🦀 🏳️‍⚧️

UK journalists long ago traded their integrity, morals & souls for money, clout with regressive politics & the ability to power trip by sicking whatever mob they can gather on those they have an axe to grind with. Richard Littlejohn killed Lucy Meadows & he still has a cushy job at the Daily Mail.

💯🎯💯

That's numerous legacy media outlets making that choice. Journalism school tells us that the framing of a story matters. Everything from the header to the lead to the body to the word choice matters, and by that metric it's ghastly how many of these outlets are pure naked bent-knee propaganda.

And the #NYT actually apologized for downplaying the holocaust. This apology happened just a few years ago. It seems like they learned nothing from their own writing.

Ответ для KurtRexCooper

A few yrs ago?? Only took them several decades wth

Ответ для smpteglow

Yes. It took them ages. It’s inexcusable.

The NYTimes hasn’t been a source of trustworthy news since 2016, speaking as a 50 year subscriber and dual national.

Ответ для FCUK EM SAU

I think you have to go back to at least the Iraq War and probably even the 2000 election. That rag was pushing for a war.

Ответ для Nomadic Princess

No, they were only reporting the “facts” as given to them by the White House. We didn’t have things like the FOIA back then. I’m speaking specifically of their quality of reporting, which, it seems, is just one level above people magazine

Ответ для FCUK EM SAU

FOIA was enacted in 1966.

Ответ для FCUK EM SAU

This is really just accepting Judith Miller's own disgraced word at face value.

Judith Miller's pathetic Iraq apologia: A disgraced reporter rallies to her own defense - Salon.comMiller's war reporting was disastrously wrong, and now she's trying desperately to spin it all awaywww.salon.com
Ответ для Dmitri. #freeLink

I don’t even know who the fuck Judith miller is and I seriously couldn’t give two fucks. Obviously you missed my point, Dimitri. Idinachui

Ответ для Nomadic Princess

How about 1922 when they were whitewashing Adolf Hitler.

As always follow the money. Owner says do this or else.

I have a degree in AP Style journalism myself. One of the most important things we are taught is to be as neutral as possible whenever writing news stories. That expectation is routinely and deliberately ignored by so many mainstream publications today in favor of staunch pro-authoritarian bias.

Ответ для Ⓐnarky Rules 🏴

I think a lot of people & outlets are confusing "nonpartisan" and "neutral". They assume everyone with an opinion on a political issue is equally correct/incorrect - a cargo-cult way to sound neutral.

WaPo and LA Times are riech there with em. Whatever sells is what they endorse

there is probably a style guide about it even

kda

Always has been. I gave up on @nytimes.com back during Trump 1.0 when they referred to the convicted officer writing a book as a retired navy seal. The pardon doesn't overturn the conviction; the headline writers made a choice (and not just a click ait choice). Complicit.

G

NYT is a Zionist rag.

Check their coverage of the 30s and 40s. They certainly like to lean pro fascism.

You are correct. (Former radio news guy)

Thank you, Matt!

I was taught that once you've detected a lie, to continue the interview ABOUT the lie and refuse to move on until that lie is acknowledged, explained, and dispelled in the subject's own quotes. If none of that happens, that source DOES NOT MAKE THE PAPER. Burning sources who try that shit is key.

Ответ для Public Record Sourcerer

Third source from (Org) who does that, no calls from (Org) anymore. No ads from (Org). No consequences means you get more attempts.

Ответ для Public Record Sourcerer

As a journalist yes, you want the story. As a journalist you want JUST the story, no extras, no sauce, no spin, no foam, no fluff, no blow, and no gifts.

Ответ для Public Record Sourcerer

Oh but they won't give me the quotes! Yeah but they'll subscribe to the paper and so will anyone they care about who asks. You don't need them, they want what YOU have.

Ответ для Public Record Sourcerer

Thank you! We are not expecting too much when we demand accountability and honest reporting from NYT. They've given up all attempts to be journalism.

Just canceled my NYT subscription. It‘s enough.

bsky.app/profile/nrev...

🇺🇦Noelle🇺🇦Dem Good @ Everything. DeICE America

#ResistanceUnited #ONEV1 Dr. Heather Cox Richardson Speaks with Gil Duran, author of the Nerd Reich about Curtis Yarvin, a blogger and tech guy who came up with the idea of a new form of government in which corporations rule as www.youtube.com/live/FWjR6_q...

💯

They have become Collaborators.

There used to be a thing called journalism where your job was to parse what’s going on from what they say is going on #brokenpress

Their lack of journalistic integrity these days is … positively Trumpian

Not mentioned once in my journalism program either.

Same. It’s so painful knowing actual journalism is dead.

The Times has failed us all.

There are a LOT of great journalists at the Time & WAPO; I wish they would leave. Because their talents are being twisted to the propaganda of their bosses. I hate that this is true. But no matter how great the journalists, I won't read them now.

Not just the NY Times.

📌

@nytimes.com is going to great lengths to normalize Trump, his regime, and his crazy followers. @nytimes.com called the assassination and attempted assassination of the Minnesota politicians "attacks on" and recently posted a Pravda worthy front page article about Trump's Triumph (the BBB)

Authoritarian Dictators can’t take over without the media outlets falling in line NYT has chosen the Trump regime over democracy This will not work out the way they think it will #StopTrump

They made an editorial choice not to talk too much about those "pesky and poor" European Jews back during and before the holocaust.. so like did they do some good investigative pieces in the middle for a bit of redemption? Cos I thought they've always been toeing the line for the establishment .

It’s literally Gilded Age Ignore What Is Not Comfortable Manners.

Yeah, I never got a “mince words” lesson. We had things about protecting private citizens as sources, and the cardinal sin of misspelling a name, but never did we discuss stroking egos or not holding power to account.

Ответ для Ripley The Fairy

"spell correctly, not incorrectly" man this journalism school sounds intense, no wonder journalism is doing so well

Ответ для ventifact

“Omit needless words” was another. Take that for what you will :)

Ответ для Ripley The Fairy

Considering that OP was really impressed when, studying under luminaries, he learned the obscure guideline of "say true things," I will concede that the most basic composition advice you'd get if you cracked Strunk and White is (in comparison) pretty sophisticated.

Ответ для ventifact

You're reading things into the OP that aren't there. There's no indication that he was impressed WHEN taught not to obfuscate, just that he was taught not to obfuscate AND his professors were impressive—in general. If you're going to be condescending, at least be accurate.

Ответ для A Compelling Unknown Force

That's some mighty fine hair-splitting and you are technically correct to catch my error. More fundamental than the timing of exactly when OP was impressed by, ya know, the truth, is: that leaders in the field felt it worth everyone's time to teach the value of truth to university students *at all*.

Ответ для ventifact

The intent wasn't to split hairs so much as support my claim that you're misreading. Which I still think you are: The OP states that his prof was impressive, and also what he was not taught. Separate statements. Nowhere is it saying he was impressed by being told to tell the truth.

Ответ для A Compelling Unknown Force

@ripleynyx.bsky.social reveals hidden secrets of the craft like "get someone's name right" and @matrueblood.bsky.social has fond memories of when uni taught him you should describe things correctly. To boast about these lessons at all implies one was not *un*impressed. That is the dig.

Ответ для ventifact

Well, what's taught and what you're reading are two different things. Which is why there's intense training for the people that work for their living.

Ответ для Imaginary Fiend

This is a fair point, and I would certainly like to hope that @matrueblood.bsky.social is mis-representing journalism training. It's just amazing that anytime I hear someone proudly trumpeting the value of journalism school, it's an obvious self-own. "I was taught to say true things!" Wow, no way.

Maybe the NYT should institute an award for most servile rephraser. They could call it the Duranty

Same here. My Journalism profs would be rolling over in their graves!

Thank you.

Bad choices.

even highschool newspapers dont have that level of fence riding