Подтвердите e-mail

Для публикаций, комментариев, реакций и сообщений подтвердите адрес.

←

Публикация

Peter Stefanovic

Andy Burnham insists he will look at increasing the personal tax allowance from £12,570 "There is no commitment at this point to change, but we will look at that in the Budget" 👏

Обсуждение

24 прямых ответов · 81 сообщений

A
Alan Arnott

Increasing personal allowance benefits higher paid much more than the poor. Until Westminster creates a positive tax to give extra to the poor, this mechanism will always fail.

Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧

Obviously. Increasing personal allowance would have large fiscal implications. Would have to be balanced by other tax increases (or spending cuts).

Ответ для Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧
angels4peace

Poor people spend their money. It still gets taxed, just in a different way.

Ответ для angels4peace
Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧

Yes the money is in the real economy, but if the overall borrowing requirement increases (as it almost certainly would) the government has to find extra money to cover the additional interest payments. The solution is obvious to everyone. The economy needs to grow. How to do this?

Ответ для Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧
TravisTAGR

Reduce or remove trade barriers with our nearest and biggest trading partner might be a start?

Ответ для TravisTAGR
Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧

That’s blatantly obvious to anyone that’s not a complete idiot. The politics is more complicated though!

Ответ для Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧
TravisTAGR

You’d be surprised how many idiots there are out there. Our politicians need to start making the case to win over the doubters, and then do something about it.

Ответ для TravisTAGR
Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧

I wouldn’t be surprised at all!

Ответ для Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧
Purple Electric

Why? The economy is not a household budget. You DON’T have to make the figures balance. In fact, it is bad for the economy to not be spending more than you raise.

Ответ для Purple Electric
Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧

I understand that. However, if you spend more than tax revenue the difference is made up by borrowing. Borrowing is the normal state of affairs. This is done via issuing government debt, which eventually has to be paid back with interest. Interest rate is 5% (ish) meaning £100bn in interest pa

Ответ для Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧
Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧

For context, £100bn is about 1.5 times the defence budget. The interest rate is set by the market. The more the government borrows, the higher the rate is likely to be. Don’t want to be “in hock to the markets?” Don’t borrow off them! You can just print money, but that’s disastrous.

Ответ для Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧
Purple Electric

One point you are omitting is that borrowing to invest leads to growth. It is what every company that is not dying does. It is what every sane country does. The other is that as money circulates round the economy, it reduces government expenditure elsewhere.

Ответ для Purple Electric
Purple Electric

Example: gov invests in a building project. People who would have been on benefits are now employed and paying taxes. They are also spending that money, so that other people are better off, paying more taxes and spending more, and so on. Plus they are less stressed so need less healthcare etc.

Ответ для Purple Electric
Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧

I know. I’ve got an economics degree. You’ve just got to convince the people lending you the money that you know what you’re doing. Liz Truss had caused a “moron premium” to be applied to U.K. government borrowing, which is still in place.

Ответ для Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧
Purple Electric

Sorry, having an economics degree just means you have been indoctrinated with current orthodoxy that has been tested to destruction for these past 40 years.

Ответ для Purple Electric
Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧

Whatever. I’ve read MMT. It’s complete nonsense.

Ответ для Purple Electric
Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧

You’re describing Keynesian economics very well. This was accepted by all U.K. governments from 1945 until about 1975 (not 1979 as widely thought). It was largely abandoned because it was used as a device that ignored long term changes that were well overdue and was inflationary.

Ответ для Purple Electric
Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧

This quote is not from a Thatcherite “We used to think that you could spend your way out of a recession and increase employment by cutting taxes and boosting government spending. I tell you in all candour that that option no longer exists..." James Callaghan, Labour PM, 1976.

Ответ для Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧
Purple Electric

Well, that’s an absolute perversion of Keynes, and also has sweet FA to do with the circumstances facing us today.

Ответ для Purple Electric
Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧

Im well aware of that. However there comes a point where the people you’re borrowing from jack up the interest rate to the point where the pain becomes too much. Current deficit is c £130bn per year, around 3.6% of GDP. Debt interest c. £100bn per year. More borrowing is possible, but risky

critical-hippo

On hour's work for Nigel Farage.

welshprince

All frigging talk...

Javier Garcia

VAT on private school whingers: "No no no, how can 'we' possibly afford this with everything else we have to put up with" 🤷‍♂️

Ответ для Javier Garcia
jonesybear

43.126 fewer kids in Indy schools. A football stadium of kids displaced. For nothing but spite.

Ответ для jonesybear
Dickie Davies

Boo fucking hoo. Go to state school it won’t kill then

Ответ для jonesybear
Javier Garcia

Good

Ответ для Javier Garcia
jonesybear

Spite like this. Where exactly is the good in it?

Ответ для jonesybear
angels4peace

Spite? Explain.

Ответ для angels4peace
jonesybear

How else would you explain introducing a measure which forced 10000s of kids from there schools and friendships groups, many mid academic year and many during alevels/gcses for an uncertain next to nothing in the education budget (which won’t arrive anyway)?

Ответ для jonesybear
angels4peace

Parents are the people you should be talking to. I doubt very much that tens of thousands of children have had their schooling interrupted. Would you like to provide proof of this??

Ответ для angels4peace
angels4peace

FYI. 2024–2025 numbers: Analysis of Department for Education records highlights that 107 independent schools opened in England, while 71 closed.

Ответ для angels4peace
angels4peace

www.theguardian.com/education/20...

No rise in private school closures in England since Labour’s VAT proposal, data showsFigures for 2024 show 46 private schools have closed with 77 opening, despite reports claiming VAT threat has toppled some schoolswww.theguardian.com
Ответ для angels4peace
angels4peace

www.lbc.co.uk/article/brid...

Bridget Phillipson hits back at suggestion private school closures linked to VAT insisting 'more have opened than closed' | LBCMore private schools are opening than shutting, Bridget Phillipson has told LBC as she hit back at claims Labour’s VAT raid on fees is forcing closures.www.lbc.co.uk
Ответ для angels4peace
jonesybear

Same response. Includes schools unaffected by VAT because LAs pay for them. Bridget lies as she breathes about this.

Ответ для angels4peace
jonesybear

Same response. Includes special school and also is before the measure was introduced!

Ответ для jonesybear
angels4peace

Yes public school numbers were already declining..

Ответ для angels4peace
jonesybear

Pupil numbers were level or increasing.

Ответ для angels4peace
jonesybear

Yes they do say that. They are including the large and continuing increase in small specialist SEN schools which are funded by LAs through EHCPs and therefore unaffected by VAT to mask their attack. Easily filtered in the data I provided: explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/data-tables/...

'School characteristics by year, sex and attendance pattern' from 'Schools, pupils and their characteristics', Permanent data tableFind, download and explore official Department for Education (DfE) statistics and data in England.explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk
Ответ для angels4peace
jonesybear

43,126 fewer in mainstream private schools since 2024. explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/data-tables/...

'School characteristics by year, sex and attendance pattern' from 'Schools, pupils and their characteristics', Permanent data tableFind, download and explore official Department for Education (DfE) statistics and data in England.explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk
Ответ для jonesybear
angels4peace

Yes. Birth rate is declining Schools are merging. And???

Ответ для angels4peace
jonesybear

1.9% drop in pupil numbers vs 7.62% in mainstream PS. Still easily 35k allowing for demographics. Merging schools wouldn’t reduce pupil numbers. Try again.

Ответ для jonesybear
angels4peace

Over 170,000 less pupils overall.

Ответ для angels4peace
angels4peace

You not understanding things seems to be the issue.

Ответ для angels4peace
jonesybear

1.9% of the total. The drop in mainstream PS is 7.62% You are struggling with percentages I think. There are a LOT more pupils overall than there are in mainstream private schools.

Ответ для jonesybear
angels4peace

“These figures reflect demographic change playing out across the entire school system – primary school numbers have been falling since 2018/19, long before any change to VAT. The share of pupils in independent schools has stayed broadly consistent at 6.3%.”

Ответ для angels4peace
angels4peace

Printed in that well known Leninist rag: www.standard.co.uk/news/politic...

Private school pupil numbers in England fall to lowest in at least a decadeThere were more than 22,000 fewer pupils in independent schools in January compared with the same point last year.www.standard.co.uk
Ответ для angels4peace
jonesybear

Yes that’s post VAT and it does not split out the increase in specialist SEN schools.

Ответ для angels4peace
jonesybear

That isn’t actually supporting your point. Primary numbers have fallen a total of 3% since 2018, most of which it recent and I have allowed for. Secondary broadly flat. So again, 1.9% drop in overall numbers. 7.62% drop mainstream private schools.

Call me Steffie McWang

I'm sure there's plenty they will look at and not change

Susanita

Fiscal drag has really depressed the mood of the nation . If he can , he should shift the tax burden to get a feel-good bounce . That’s what gets governments through tougher times .

puggsy

WEALTH TAX NOW. I've had enough of this skirting around the real issue.

Dave Hargreaves

Personal allowance has been an insidious tax increase by the tories since 21 & is strangling consumer led growth. We have an allowance that puts pensioners under threat of taxation on their meager state pension & is under half of a full time salary for those on minimum wage. This is economic madness

corcra88

Freezing the personal allowance has meant lower earners have been paying a disproportionate amount of tax. Labour really need to increase the threshold & link it to inflation.

bellhui1b

It's Strange How Little You need to Live after reaching Pension Age What ever that is this Year. What is Minimum Wage for 16 Year olds? £16,640 per year before tax. Maybe Give a Pensioner Same as somebody who Hasn't Worked all their Life! Three Score and 16!

Mia Cheviot

This is good news. This is the best way to help low paid workers.

Ulla Rajala

It would be more beneficial to give rebait of commuting costs 🧐

Ответ для Ulla Rajala
Markeye

Not for people who don’t commute.

Ответ для Markeye
Ulla Rajala

But getting to work is a real cost barrier to apply for jobs in c. 25,000-30,000 pounds bracket

Ответ для Ulla Rajala
Markeye

Yes - but it’s not ‘more beneficial’ to the majority of people outside the south east.

Ответ для Markeye
Ulla Rajala

Or Midlands... Or around Manchester or Liverpool. And Cambridge. And...

Ответ для Markeye
Ulla Rajala

And with 'commute' I mean any travel to work. Not only London. People drive long distances across England.

Ответ для Ulla Rajala
angels4peace

£2 bus fares were announced yesterday.

Alison

Could be considered is very different from will …. www.bbc.co.uk/news/article...

No immediate change to income tax allowance, says Andy BurnhamThe new prime minister previously said voters were frustrated over the freeze in tax-free personal allowance.www.bbc.co.uk
Ответ для Alison
angels4peace

If a change happens it will be in April and announced in the Autumn.

Sixes All The Way

Can we have ministers not on the take for a change? bsky.app/profile/scot...

The National

The new Health Secretary was gifted a total of £165,439 from backers connected with the healthcare industry, according to the pressure group EveryDoctor which campaigns against NHS privatisation 👉 www.thenational.scot/news/2...

Clive Woodbridge

The allowance was always going to change. No government of whatever hue will want a situation where the basic pension is taxed. They are going to have to rethink the triple lock.

baggiesman

I think he will discover that the cost of increasing the allowance is just unaffordable. It was one of those ‘taxes’ that the public didn’t really understand but is continuing for several years. The failure to index personal allowances is a stealth tax and insidious to the really poor.

Just Football

Why would he change it. That is not progressive taxation. Maybe start by looking at the student loan con

Ian McKenzie

Burnham & Healey know they have to do something otherwise it is likely the State Pension (assuming ongoing adherence to the triple lock) will exceed the personal tax allowance in the tax year 27/28. This would not be because of an over-generous state pension but of the freeze on tax allowances.

Ответ для Ian McKenzie
Charley McC

If they reinstated the extra £2k tax allowance introduced by Churchill for the poorest pensioners it would make a huge difference, the Coalition removed it in 2016

Ответ для Charley McC
Dickie Davies

They did that to introduce the New State Pension. They increased NI for everyone previously opted out got rid of the dependents element of RP and saved £1b a year. Triple Lock was introduced as a decoy for the Tax Increase and cuts to the Pension

iskragoch

Hmmm ... actions count, not words.

angels4peace

It has to rise. Freezing it for another 5 years is bat 💩.

counterjoint

Again, looking at the poor, when should be looking at the rich.

SwelterTheChef

Increase the basic rate to 17,500, add an additional 48% on over 200,000 to cover it. Not sure if the maths maths, someone can work it out.

Ответ для SwelterTheChef
Philip Creegan

That won't cover it.

Ответ для SwelterTheChef
Andy McD

Team it through AI, and got this: "Sadly the maths doesn't work. HMRC's ready reckoner: £100 on the allowance costs £810m; 1p on the additional rate raises £145m. £17,500 needs 220p on the top rate — i.e. 265%. There is no rate on high earners that funds it."

Ответ для Andy McD
SwelterTheChef

ah bugger, this Chancellor lark isn't easy.

Ответ для SwelterTheChef
Ответ для SwelterTheChef
Gary Carter #FBPE 🇬🇧

It doesn’t. There aren’t that many high earners.

Kirth Gersen

If the threshold remains the same, people on just the basic state pension will be paying tax by this time next year. The government had promised that no one on just the basic state pension would pay tax and promised some sort of fudge to make it happen, a threshold raise would negate that.