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one of the things covid really laid bare was that senior leaders and executives are totally disconnected from how workers actually do their work in a way that was pretty shocking and wasn’t, in my working experience, always the case (at least to this extreme)

GOLIKEHELLMACHINE

i worked for more than one client on trying to draft RTO policies that were intended to ease workers back into it and prioritize health, flexibility, and manager discretion only to see their senior leaders trash the plan and adopt the stick approach

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14 прямых ответов · 48 сообщений

MBAification and an entire group of execs who only knew post 2008 management principles which didn't require you to do training or skill development of your employees just use the bad labor market to give yourself the ability to pick someone who took on debt to get the skills you wanted.

Working for a company that isn't based in the US has been a friggin trip. I was on a call with a guy a few rungs above me, and he told me, "So, I don't know if you ever do this, but when I've got a meeting I don't really need to participate in, I listen on my phone while I take my dog for a walk."

Left Coast Reads 📚🌹

The CEO of my employer was furious when not enough people attended the all-hands meeting in person (it was also live streamed). An email went out the next day saying everyone must RTO 5 days/week. They walked it back when they realized at least one office didn't even have enough desks for us all!

I told my boss that per the guidance from the COO, the hybrid policy was not about performance but about "water cooler collaboration" and in that case I would block out the hours before and after lunch every T/Th for "commute", eat lunch in the cafeteria and go home to do my work.

Ответ для Siebznet

The thing about collaboration is - I was in the office yesterday and at one of my in person meetings we talked about fitness watches and running for 15 minutes and then ran out of time for our actual task. That doesn't happen in my Zoom meetings.

Ответ для Siebznet

That meeting was nbd, and I generally don't mind going into the office now and again, as long as there is a good reason (vendor meeting yesterday), and it is actually good to shoot the shit with your boss about watches or coffee or D&D sometimes. But man has the RTO process been fucked up.

Ответ для Siebznet

it does occur to me that if it weren't for RTO some of these managers would never speak to another human being in-person at all

Ответ для Robot Bastard!

I think it's more that they were forced to speak to their wives/kids and didn't like it

Ответ для Siebznet

Oh btw the result here was that I was re-classified as a 100% Virtual employee within 48 hours

Ответ для Siebznet

This kind of shit doesn't work for everyone obviously, I am an operationally essential and objectively underpaid employee who at that time had three years of exceptional performance reviews and had just moved right to the border of the official "commute radius"

My completely unsupported notion on this is it's possible a much larger percentage of senior leaders today are career senior leaders and not people who worked their way up from initially being workers. Upsides and downsides to that, but that would also go a long way toward explaining the disconnect.

a lot of executives viewed RTO exclusively through the eyes of an executive and were (and remain) extremely hostile to the idea that their experience wasn’t representative of the rank and file experience, and this wasn’t always the case

Ответ для GOLIKEHELLMACHINE

what has changed, at least in my experience, is that executives now have completely bought their own bullshit about how they’re actchuaaallly workers, too, and so whatever policy they decide on is fine for the workforce because it works for them

Ответ для GOLIKEHELLMACHINE

Also the modern performance systems all reward pleasing the boss a lot more than being a good worker. So bosses want to please their boss more than set up systems that work well. Sycophants all the way down, so the execs don’t have an avenue to understand what actually happens on the ground.

Ответ для GOLIKEHELLMACHINE

Back in 2000, I worked at Frito-Lay’s headquarters, and the HQ inclement weather policy was dictated by a VP who literally lived down the road. The official policy was “if he could make it in to work, everybody else should.” I thought about that a little during COVID.

Ответ для Paul Riddell

yeah, i don’t mean to suggest it’s always been great, but it’s universally worse now, i think

Ответ для GOLIKEHELLMACHINE

Oh, I absolutely agree with you. We’re seeing that VP being normalized. (Incidentally, Christmas Eve 2000 got a for-Dallas massive snowfall, and the main route to Frito’s HQ was literally lined with vehicles that slid off the road. Even working night and day, tow trucks didn’t clear it until NYE.)

Ответ для GOLIKEHELLMACHINE

Ironically, it's at a time when execs have *less* to do, given how much the physical running of an office has changed

Ответ для GOLIKEHELLMACHINE

It just doesn't feel...tenable. This level of disconnect, I mean. American workers put up with a lot, too much in this Teamster's opinion, but since COVID, it feels like more people recognize the value of their labor. And the lack of value in management. At least from my pov.

Ответ для Tearlach

That’s why they’re desperate for AI. They want to annihilate all white collar workers, who are more likely to have the resources and education to challenge them.

Ответ для GOLIKEHELLMACHINE

I feel like this is also related to upper management increasingly being MBAs who parachute in rather than people with any tie to the company (or even the industry). Financialization made management as fungible as investments.

Ответ для GOLIKEHELLMACHINE
Ответ для GOLIKEHELLMACHINE

One unpopular opinion I had as a result of working alongside parts of the USG- your public facing parts of the government that are in offices spread across the country so they're more accessible need to be in the office because that's the entire point of spreading them out!

Ответ для GOLIKEHELLMACHINE

Can confirm, as a drone in one of the extremist RTO companies. Our CEO is not very imaginative and when given softball questions at the company meetings about his work experiences has to reach back to the 1990s for anything relatable

At my company you could tell execs thought about rto a lot because they instituted it by email as like "this is mandatory within a few weeks" and didn't think through seat/office assignment since we now had a smaller office post covid

I worked for a national nonprofit that supposedly cared about its employees. The RTO was basically at the discretion of the director, unless the VP thought that your WFH was a workaround for child care. Or mental health. The wall between our offices was very thin and wellllll...VP was an ass..

It's also worth noting that senior leaders and executives are, for the most part, entitled halfwit white guys who have spent their careers failing upward. Their only meaningful skills are playing golf with other entitled halfwits and asking their wives to dress them in the morning. That's it.

Ответ для My name is Larn

A screenwriter put out a big rant a while back about how nobody was hiring white guys for creative jobs anymore, and in the middle of roasting him for being Fucking Racist everyone skipped over the part where he said "the industry's full of white guys, they just aren't hiring new ones..."

Ответ для My name is Larn
A

And the billionaire tech bros are guys who happened to be in the right place during emergence of a new technology and now believe they are geniuses entitled to run the planet.

Ответ для All things considered

Agreed! See also: Marc "Beldar Conehead" Andreessen, Bill Gates and, well, virtually every industrialist from the beginning of time. "I got lucky once (or my daddy's friends fronted me a couple hundred million) so that must mean I'm the smartest person ever."

I work at a mid-sized manufacturer, ~10k employees a few billion in sales. I had a project manager role that got me close to working with upper management. What blew my mind was that everyone in leadership wanted to keep WFH until you got all the way up to the president and board who wanted RTO

Ответ для mojarbs

Same. Except it was made obvious that they wouldn’t be partaking in RTO except when they felt like it.

Ответ для Perpetually confused

"We need to all return to the office, and because I'm working twenty-four hours a day my office is wherever I'm standing, including my back porch at home looking at a golf course..."

anecdotes aren't data but this absolutely trickles down to middle management too; my mom spent like 40 years as a project manager at BNY (retired) & she INSISTS that office work leads to Camaraderie and More Productivity. i cannot explain to her that her experiences are not universal.

Ответ для notapaladin/ship-to-hell

i mean, i can totally understand why a project manager believes this, project management is a hard job made much harder with remote work. it’s not true for all jobs but it’s very specifically true for PMs that trying to do everything via teams is incredibly difficult

Ответ для GOLIKEHELLMACHINE

Oh, I can imagine! But she generalizes it to EVERY office job and I am like "mom, I love you but I cannot stress the extent to which people literally looking over my shoulder, as an editor, would make me LESS productive."

Ответ для notapaladin/ship-to-hell

I don't think your mom is wrong! Camaraderie/does can lead to more productivity, but it's not the only thing. I would go into the office 2 or 3 days a week if I could, but not spending 3 hours in my car is a much bigger productivity boost.

a lot of my coworkers are bad at their jobs whether they are at home or in the office, I don't see why I also have to be punished alongside them

I blame it on corporate leadership being a goat rodeo of people who are basically all sociopaths in one form or another and have never done the actual work, aka the “financialization of the c-suite”.

Ответ для John Brown’s Body

You've just described the leadership of virtually every organization in the US. Halfwit white guys whose only skill is cosplaying personality disorders and calling it management.

Ответ для My name is Larn

Yes, but…behold, a counterexample: fortune.com/2026/06/08/c...

Costco's CEO rose from forklift driver to the C-suite without a college degree: ‘Don’t chase a title,’ is the career advice that got him there | FortuneEven without a college degree, Costco CEO Ron Vachris rose from the warehouse floor to the corner office—guided by his father’s advice.fortune.com
Ответ для John Brown’s Body

Agreed. But Costco is one of the only corps that has gone to shareholders and said "we pay our people well because it's cheaper than training someone new every other month and if you don't like it, invest elsewhere." The previous CEO, Jim Sinegal, may have been even better than Vachris.

Ответ для John Brown’s Body

He's basically the exception that proves the rule. HE is good, what's bad is that he's so very very rare among corporate leadership that he's basically a unicorn.

Ответ для John Brown’s Body

"What if we just ate the seed corn?"

Ответ для nanzhounoodles

Right? We already have it, and we are hungry. This seems like a no brainer.

Ответ для John Brown’s Body

Add, think they've done actual work. And won't let you forget it. "I put the radio on the internet."