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“Brandon,” a Bluesky commenter

Cold urbanist take: ban right turns on red lights Hot urbanist take: ban left turns on unprotected greens

Обсуждение

13 прямых ответов · 56 сообщений

Logical Frank

There's an argument to be made for banning drivers from making left turns altogether at most intersections.

Ответ для Logical Frank
Ответ для Uribe Down - controlled flight into terrain
Ответ для Logical Frank
madopal

I've often wondered how much garbage Google Maps et al have been injecting into traffic, and this shows that UPS is aware of their stupidity.

Ответ для madopal
Uribe Down - controlled flight into terrain

Delivery driver reliant one g-maps here, can confirm that they’re trash, and have gotten significantly worse in the last few years.

Ответ для Uribe Down - controlled flight into terrain
Uribe Down - controlled flight into terrain

Here’s a couple fun screenshots I’ve taken; google either decides “all stoplights bad” or has no idea what a good route is

Ответ для Uribe Down - controlled flight into terrain
madopal

I'm assuming much is crowd-sourced, because: 1. They LOVE expressways 2. They LOVE taking you across uncontrolled crossings 3. They LOVE weird routes that save you minimal time (and probably cost it if everything doesn't go right)

Ответ для madopal
madopal

Also, the idea of creating a route on anything other than time or distance is a completely foreign concept (pretty/interesting route, slower route, etc). There's so much room for improvement on nav systems right now. Of course, they're seen as free, so the cost/benefit analysis is dodgy.

Ответ для madopal
mindstalk

Several bike apps do have different criteria for their routes! And even Google has a few options, like "accessible" for public transit, or "avoid tolls" for driving.

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Logical Frank

I have been hoping the city government (or some level) could put some pressure on them to stop directing people to use residential streets as cut throughs.

Ответ для madopal
Uribe Down - controlled flight into terrain

It’s not so much weird routes as “avoid stoplights,” among other ideas. I believe it’s based on their own streetview/AI and cell-based traffic patterns.

Ответ для Uribe Down - controlled flight into terrain
mindstalk

My mildly bad gmap experience was it telling Uber to cross Marin at Curtis, in Albany CA. Marin is nearly constantly busy and there's no light or sign there apart from a good beg button for pedestrians, which we weren't. I feel taking the light one block over would have been prudent.

Ответ для mindstalk
mindstalk

In Richmond BC, I was advised to walk across a wide busy road to get groceries, which seemed insane at first. However, there was a broad island that helped a lot, maybe it knew that? Not sure. Opened my eyes to the power of median refuge islands.

Ответ для madopal
JMFallon

Yeah to leave my neighborhood google always suggests a left-hand turn into a stroad that is 6 lanes. No thank you

Ответ для JMFallon
Uribe Down - controlled flight into terrain

It’d be one thing if it was a bug that was ironed out at some point, not a consistent feature that makes use of the app more difficult

Ответ для Logical Frank
Patrick Matthews

Oh yeah it's an entire thing

Ответ для Patrick Matthews
Ответ для Logical Frank
clara

whaaat, awesome

Ответ для Logical Frank
Cobalt Enjoyer

Have you heard of our Lord and Savior, the roundabout?

Balu Puppy

Yes. Yes. (One section both should be instituted: every intersection on the north shore channel trail)

🏳️‍🌈🚲Cole🚄🚟

I will go out of my way to avoid turning left at unprotected greens at busy intersections when driving anyway.

kmrst

Even as a primarily driver I don't want this shit either. Please just say go or don't go. Very frustrating that like 20% of the lights are "take your destiny into your own hands."

Molly Fleck

My husband's #1 rant when driving in Chicago is: why would you have a left turn lane at a stop light and then not put in an advance green arrow?

Ответ для Molly Fleck
Eric the Red

CDOT:

Ответ для Molly Fleck
NobodobodoN

When I was in Los Angeles (99-02), there were basically no protected left turns. It was nightmarish.

Ответ для Molly Fleck
brooke bikes mke

Makes me insane in Milwaukee.

Ответ для Molly Fleck
Nova999999

Probably costs an extra $500 or something (hilariously low guess)

Fietser

Ban all turns. You can only go straight until you leave the city and drive into an ocean.

Ответ для Fietser
“Brandon,” a Bluesky commenter

drastic but it’s being done in the name of Public Safety

Ответ для Fietser
mrmaniac3

It's foolproof

Jay

I don't turn right on red and other drivers get BIG MAD about it lol

Æthelred the UnPreddy

It is my hobby horse that the city should probably update signals to include left turn phasing and prohibit unprotected greens. It is a wonder to me more people do not get t-boned playing chicken and consistently running the red five at a time at the end of the phase.

Ответ для Æthelred the UnPreddy
Æthelred the UnPreddy

That it has not is probably (beyond the cost of modernizing the outdated controller and cabinet equipmeny) a consequence of the fact that making a left turn queue at most intersections would require removing street parking, which, lol.

Ответ для Æthelred the UnPreddy
“Brandon,” a Bluesky commenter

Removing street parking: the touching the third rail for cagers.

Ответ для Æthelred the UnPreddy
Based and Superstructured

There are so many major intersections with left turn lanes and no left turn lights! It's absolutely ridiculous. Adding a light should not be that complicated.

Ответ для Based and Superstructured
Eric Allix Rogers

Yeah, the ones that have lanes without lights are just. Stupid.

Ответ для Based and Superstructured
Æthelred the UnPreddy

The only other way I can rationalize it is that the cabinets and controllers run the cost of up to half a million or even a million+ if it requires a full modernisation but yeah it's one of those things that just do not click for me and would instantly improve life here.

Ответ для Æthelred the UnPreddy
Æthelred the UnPreddy

You would be shocked how many of these things are still running on the antique mechanically actuated boxes

Ответ для Æthelred the UnPreddy
Eric Allix Rogers

You can literally tell which ones are because they make noises when the lights are about to change!

Ответ для Æthelred the UnPreddy
Regime Bureaucrat

Pretty sure basically every intersection modernization I've seen has included dedicated left turn phases. CDOT only got serious about this safety stuff surprisingly recently.

“Brandon,” a Bluesky commenter

As an Avid Walker™️ left turns on unprotected greens are one of the main ways I almost get hit. They’re focusing on oncoming traffic and not where their car is moving.

Ответ для “Brandon,” a Bluesky commenter
Madam Jumbo

Also hate them when I’m driving!

Ответ для “Brandon,” a Bluesky commenter
“Brandon,” a Bluesky commenter

And because drivers feel exposed when they have to stop mid turn they have a gut instinct to gun it through the left turn even if a pedestrian is present.

Ответ для “Brandon,” a Bluesky commenter
Worker’s Cottage Core

I hate them too as pedestrian and driver, buttt sometimes chaos slows the system down and is in effect safer. Like a protected green could mean faster left turns which could turn out to be more deadly. Plus that would add another cycle to lights making it harder to give more time for pedestrians

Ответ для Worker’s Cottage Core
“Brandon,” a Bluesky commenter

I mean a single lane traffic circle w/o a slip lane is probably the win/win/win solution

Ответ для “Brandon,” a Bluesky commenter
Worker’s Cottage Core

Agreed, this is probably best. And on fast roads the best we can hope for is something like a michigan left

Ответ для “Brandon,” a Bluesky commenter
Patrick Matthews

I rarely bike nowadays, but I do a *lot* of walking/jogging in my suburban environment, and hoo boy are drivers just not paying attention to pedestrians AT ALL.

Ответ для Patrick Matthews
Patrick Matthews

I'd like to think that it's made me a better driver, and more apt to be on the lookout for the non-drivers who are also on the roads/sidewalks, but I probably fail to maintain proper attention myself at times. It's so easy to do.

Ответ для Patrick Matthews
Arolpin

Nope. Got hit on my run by a guy turning right on red yesterday. Saw him edging out, screamed, waved my arms, ended up jumping on his hood and rolling off. (Then I may have gone a bit psycho screaming at him. Sorry, not sorry.)

Ответ для “Brandon,” a Bluesky commenter
Noah 🚎

💯💯💯

Ответ для “Brandon,” a Bluesky commenter
OB Cycler

I've been hit like this, from behind not fun

Politics of Cars

yes, those are good

HSRGood

I don't think that 4 position left signals aren't present/legal within city limits which is wild because they're way more controlling than 3 position fixed left or unprotected greens.

David And the Cube

I’m not nearly as anti car, but point 2 is the goods. Longest take ife had is every single left turn at a light should be protected. Pedestrians, straight and right turn traffic, left arrow at the end. Lets people walk with more time and clears the intersection by the end. Much safer imho

Bryan Culbertson 🥄

I talked to someone who moved here from Spain and was horrified that the concept of unprotected left turns exist here. You don't need them if you have roundabouts.