Подтвердите e-mail

Для публикаций, комментариев, реакций и сообщений подтвердите адрес.

←

Публикация

Pitch Mr. Perfect

The Indiana Fever play tomorrow in Portland and Sunday in Minnesota. There are "Support Sophie Cunningham" transphobic rallies planned for both cities. Fuck all the way off. #WNBA

Обсуждение

13 прямых ответов · 78 сообщений

Laurie

Come on #WNBA #Lynx fans! Show your support for the LGBTQ community!

Shameka ❤️🏀

I’m so over this. We should boycott that team until they address this. DIRECTLY.

Disband ICE

I can't imagine they will be well attended. Especially in Minneapolis.

Ответ для Disband ICE
Disband ICE

And Portland.

Ответ для Disband ICE
Midwestern Mermaid

The one big issue on Seattle is there were some people who bought courtside seats and gave their daughters signs supporting Sophie protecting womens sports and that is probably going to be common now.

Ответ для Midwestern Mermaid
Midwestern Mermaid

So you will probably have evangelicals for the next few weeks be doing this. Use the kids as props because they always do that. That could be a bigger issue than a rally of a dozen people.

Moth

Do you have any more information about this planned rally in Minneapolis?

Pitch Mr. Perfect

I'm a credentialed reporter. I'm a seasoned journalist. I know there are things I need to be careful of. I know there are lines. I know that I need to be unbiased. But I promise you, my love and support of the LGBTQ community outweighs my love of basketball by 100x. That will always come first.

Ответ для Pitch Mr. Perfect
beerbitch

Credentialed reporter. Like anybody gives a single fuck about you, loser. You’re a fucking idiot who is so far out of touch with reality. You’re not “unbiased” one bit, in fact you’re a fucking embarrassment to yourself, Mike.

Ответ для Pitch Mr. Perfect
sybau2020
Ответ для sybau2020
Pitch Mr. Perfect

I'm glad that this was included in there because that's my response to you. 🖕

kittythoughts

I am trans and I agree as much as it is possible to agree

Conscientious Ice🧊

Too much drama for me

c. jonathan scriven

Is it your position that believing that women's sports should be separated by biological sex (as a statement about competitive fairness) is 'transphobic' or that you are assuming that those who are organizaing the event are 'transphobic'. Big difference.

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
DJ Junk

The term biological sex is itself transphobic. It simply wasn't a thing until around 2016 or so.

Ответ для DJ Junk
c. jonathan scriven

OK, but that doesn't answer my question.

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
Eddie Dingle

lol fuck your question

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
Veleda_k

My boy, you thought your little question was slick, but I'll tell you it wasn't.

Ответ для Veleda_k
c. jonathan scriven

I appreciate the dismissive nature of your respone ('my boy' is classic). However, I'm asking a genuine question (for which I STILL have not gotten a response): is it 'transphobic' to argue that biological men and women should not compete against in other in organized sports?

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
c. jonathan scriven

I am not asking whether there are arguments to made FOR this or AGAINST this, simply whether it is considered 'transphobic' to make that arguement from a competition perspective.

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
5cycle

Your question is loaded because you use the term biological men which is used to imply that trans women are physically comparable to cis men. Drag queens basically. This is just fallacy so any thought downstream of that is polluted with transphobia.

Ответ для 5cycle
Marcella #creativity #nature

You’re wasting your time. That person teaches at a Seventh Day Adventist university according to their bio. Little chance for balanced, open-minded thought, I would think.

Ответ для Marcella #creativity #nature
c. jonathan scriven

Thanks for the stereotype. That's always helpful. You may have noticed that I have made NO claim about taking any position on this topic. I have simply asked a question -- one that very few in this thread have bothered to answer. I appreciate those who did.

Ответ для 5cycle
c. jonathan scriven

You may be right that I am not using the correct vocabulary. I apologize for that. But I'm not trying to make an arguement here beyond this question: is there any validity to the idea that someone born as a boy competing in sports with people born as girls may create competition issues?

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
5cycle

Trans women with fully suppressed testosterone and on estrogen on par with cis women after 2 years, or worse off. This was a common policy based on data, that has since been rolled back due to transphobia. Anyone fully on Testosterone has a physical advantage, but it goes away over time.

Ответ для 5cycle
c. jonathan scriven

I see. I get that, but is there evidence to suggest that the traditional "advantages" men have over women in areas like strength, speed, etc level out with suppressed testosterone and increased estrogen? Obviously, things like height don't go away. Neither does physical size. So what is 'on par'?

Ответ для DJ Junk
c. jonathan scriven

Could you explain that? What term should I use? (And why does the fact that the term didn't exist until 2016 matter here?)

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
Pitch Mr. Perfect

it's my position that there is no good faith argument and people will use mental gymnastics as a way to try to justify their stance when it's really transphobia. It's not about trans athletes - it's about trans folx.

Ответ для Pitch Mr. Perfect
c. jonathan scriven

It feel like you are now playing the mental gymnastics. You are the one assuming it's 'not about trans athletes' but something bigger. But the word 'transphobic' has real implications and I am genuinely wondering if it is your contention that someone is 'transphobic' if they make this argument.

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
c. jonathan scriven

And if the answer is "yes", just say so. If someone can support trans people in almost every other way, but draw the line at athletics (for a vareity of reasons -- competition? protecting women's sports?) are they transphobic?

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
Pitch Mr. Perfect

Yes. It is transphobic.

Ответ для Pitch Mr. Perfect
c. jonathan scriven

OK. Thank you for the direct answer.

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
Gabe Johnson

If there was literally any data suggesting this was a problem for the competition of women’s sports than anyone would take the argument as a serious argument. Since there isn’t, it stands to reason that people making the argument are either dumb or actually doing something else

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
Heather Small

They are literally afraid of a class of people and want to impose invasive legal scrutiny and gatekeeping over an issue that is literally non-existent in most people's lives They are literally treating us as a suspect class It's inarguably transphobic

Ответ для Heather Small
Heather Small

You can debate about whether the source of the transphobia is mean-spiritedness or ignorance, but well-meaning bigotry is still bigotry

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
sin eating disorder

yes

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
Heather Small

Yes

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
5cycle

Trans women used to be able to play many sports if they preformed blood tests showing at least 2 years of Testosterone below 10nl/DL because at that point there is no physical advantage, and possibly a disadvantage because that is very low for cis women. The science didn’t change!

Ответ для 5cycle
c. jonathan scriven

That fine, and I follow your argument. But I'm still looking for a response to this question: is it considered 'transphobic' to argue that biological men and women should not compete together in organized sports (such as the NCAA, WNBA, etc).

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
5cycle

Yes. Because trans women are not biological men. If the endocrine system has fundamentally been altered to the point of physical equivalence then the only argument is transphobic

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
sin eating disorder

what do "biological men" have to do with trans women pal

Ответ для sin eating disorder
c. jonathan scriven

Could you explain this a bit. Am I using terms incorrectly (very likely!). If I want to have a serious discussion about this issue, what terms be using?

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
Heather Small

trans women/girls

Ответ для Heather Small
Heather Small

Using "biological men" instead doesn't do anything to clarify who you're talking about (trans women) Indeed, it's less precise because it includes cis men Which is the whole point of using that term - it groups trans women as a subtype of men to imply that it's reasonable to exclude them

Ответ для Heather Small
c. jonathan scriven

Thank you. That makes sense. What I am trying to get at is this: if someone wants to object to transwomen competing in girls sports, they often refer to the way a person was born (sorry if wrong term, again). Is there NO validity to the idea that trans women will (or can) have major advantages?

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
sin eating disorder

first of all "trans women" not "transwomen". secondly, no there is no validity to the idea. the bans do not target people for having an unfair advantage, the bans posit that being trans constitutes an advantage on its face. and no evidence for that has ever been provided

Ответ для sin eating disorder
c. jonathan scriven

I was responding to someone else.

Ответ для sin eating disorder
sin eating disorder

these bans have ridden along sentiment driven by extremely isolated incidents framed in dishonest ways, by people acting in deliberately bad faith. no study, no meta study, has ever shown that a material advantage exists, and even then, you would have to prove that an advantage that a trans woman

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
Heather Small

Every competitive-level organization that allows (or allowed) trans women to play has rules and standards about it to address that that are based factors more relevant than the chromosomes and genitals someone was born with

Ответ для Heather Small
Heather Small

So no, there is NO validity to the idea that they WILL have competitive advantages, and the status quo before the moral panic that got these bans rolling already addressed the idea that they CAN

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
sin eating disorder

you are asking why women shouldn't be called male and you think you have the capacity for a serious conversation?

Ответ для sin eating disorder
sin eating disorder

like bud you are so desperately far out of your depth that you have unquestioningly accepted slurs against women as fully normalized that you would use that slur when asking one of those women why you shouldn't say it

Ответ для sin eating disorder
sin eating disorder

the matter at hand is that trans women are being banned from sports - amongst many other things - on nothing more than the basis of a box that was ticked on their birth certificate years and years earlier. this is framed by the fascists as being a matter of "biology" -

Ответ для sin eating disorder
sin eating disorder

however this claim rests on nothing but the at-birth attestation of a doctor making a cursory glance towards a newborns anatomy. no further insight is required. on this basis alone the matter ought to be discarded as meaningless.

Ответ для sin eating disorder
sin eating disorder

it is as if, since we do not allow babies to drive cars, i were to insist that you be banned from driving because when you were born, you were a baby. "but I am no longer a baby," you might well insist. however the position embraced by bigots is that you cannot change. baby then baby now.

Ответ для sin eating disorder
c. jonathan scriven

I'm trying to learn about something I don't know much about, so your condescending responses are just perfect! Cheers. I see you aren't the best person to learn from.

Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
Matthew Giraldi
Ответ для c. jonathan scriven
Phil

It’s my position that you sound like a bitch

Langdon Grant

This could be interesting, because if there's a city in America that's known for rabidly intolerant and febrile reactionary right-wing politics, it's... [checks notes]... Portland. Didn't they try to do a similar rally in Seattle a couple of nights ago and only, like, 10 or 12 people showed up?

Ответ для Langdon Grant
Michelle

Not like Minnesota and Minneapolis are slouches themselves.

Ответ для Langdon Grant
Brittney Bush Bollay

If that, and thankfully the local news media barely covered it. Hopefully these other rallies also fizzle out like quiet farts 🤞

Ответ для Langdon Grant
Fluff Orpington

TBF, it makes the right-wing Christian nationalists and grifters in the area that much more volatile. There have been multiple prayer-rallies here just in the last month.

beerbitch

Can you Provide one single reason why my daughter should be forced to compete against a biological male in a sporting competition, Mike?

Ответ для beerbitch
withmorewit

Because excluding trans teens increases the risk of suicide. thehill.com/homenews/lgb...

Laws restricting transgender rights linked to uptick in suicide attempts among trans youthState-level laws restricting or threatening transgender rights can have significant adverse effects on trans and nonbinary young people’s mental health, according to new research from The Tre…thehill.com
Ответ для withmorewit
beerbitch

Because they’re mentally ill. Not because they can’t play sports against girls. Period.

Ответ для beerbitch
withmorewit

They used to say “mentally ill” about gay people. And teens being discriminated against by society have negative consequences. Why would it be otherwise?

BERTA

Yeah fuck this but the good news is that when they were in Seattle last week there was less than ten rally goers. I hope that keeps up for Portland and Minneapolis too!

Ответ для BERTA
Ashli BABIP

wow i love this berta x waterloo crossover episode

Ответ для Ashli BABIP
Ответ для Pitch Mr. Perfect
Ashli BABIP

seeing two of my mutuals interact in the wild hits so hard

Ответ для Ashli BABIP
BERTA

We hate transphobic fucks and west coast cities (or at least I do lol) what can I say

Ответ для AlgoCompSynth 🇺🇦 🇨🇦🇬🇱 (not a clanker)
Fluff Orpington

The flyer I saw didn’t mention location

Ответ для Fluff Orpington
AlgoCompSynth 🇺🇦 🇨🇦🇬🇱 (not a clanker)

I'm not planning to go to the game anyway - there's sort of an informal boycott of Fever games on TV too. And a lot of the Fever games got sold to various streaming services because Caitlin Clark so I'm already boycotting those.

Ответ для AlgoCompSynth 🇺🇦 🇨🇦🇬🇱 (not a clanker)
Fawksey Moron - PNW Guy 🦋

Yeah I had thought about taking the kiddo but I'm soured now.

Landon Norden

lol. Minnesota and Portland are two of the most progressive places in the country. Good luck w/ that.