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1000% this is the most telling photo, he is completely exposed. If you showed him this today he still wouldn't notice anything wrong.

if ASL specifically was related to Deafness, all deaf people would be using ASL around the world as a spontaneous development of being without hearing.

it hasn't been done. it has specifically and deliberately not been done, but it is being acted out in many classroom settings. My fear is that the battle over ASL use is the wrong fight. Battle over using SIGN, cool, but imo it should be in the same language of utility/literacy/social interaction.

this conversation was never about IF asl is a language. anything can be a language. My problem with ASL is that it prevents literacy culturally in comparison to signing English/reading English/sharing information in various formats. What other setting teaches reading in a different language?

there are the typical pile of confounds they show that ASL "can" be a benefit and that "bilingualism" can be a successful pattern in early education. What they do NOT discuss are the vastly different home environments and what a "strict ASL" environment is like. Nothing about English syntax sign.

lol

Truth is where you least expect it

we can transmit it from one person to another who are removed by time. English doesn't deny or obscure the fact of borrowing words, and English speakers aren't tied to one version. English doesn't specifically exclude anyone. Culture is aside from language, specifically. Culture exists beyond that.

boy you sleuths have it all figured out eh? How about providing one study that shows ASL makes literacy acquisition easier than English syntax signing.

There was a time they did. Greek too. now, simple ideas like linguistic similarity seem lost in the noise.

French and "ASL" are closer to each other than either is to English in typical daily use. yes or no.

indigenous sign can claim this and any derivative system even people (deaf, Deaf or not) who sign randomly can claim this, but ASL was invented. There is nothing inherent to Deafness that created ASL syntax Same number of signs but in English order would serve multiple prosocial functions.

written down in english in wikipedia.

yeah... confusing to the young english reader. my point exactly. ASL didn't evolve like a thumb. Deaf brains don't learn "differently" -exposure makes an imprint, context provides meaning. Think more broadly please. Common sense here. Who invented ASL? Who invented English? Is English the culture?

but predominantly one that allowed conversation about the textbooks and its contents with peers. What I'm saying is that without artificial barriers and the consequential segregation, freely singing and fingerspelling in english would likely be the collective norm. The mode would be accepted now.

really? Notice how meaningless that distinction is? It's not it's "own" language but a strong reason Deaf needed their "own" language was federal funding. Without that whole push, if the Deaf were just educated and allowed to sign when and how they wanted, you'd see all sorts of sign evolve

point is, that english sign order allows drastically less effort elsewhere and brings benefits in personal reading enjoyment and interaction in daily life. You wouldn't advocate for a reclusive culture, would you?

"oralists" ? who in the "hearing world" calls themselves oralists? NOBODY in the "hearing world" thinks there's a hearing world! Try and describe the syntax of ASL to anyone having a hard time interacting, I promise it will revolutionize the process. Look at the mechanics of learning. Easy is better

please.. my point was that culture is not language. Sure language isolation is an after effect, but to tie everything to a language decision imo hasn't been the best thing to build community in a wider world

what is culture? is it a language that was invented? My point is that if a language was invented recently and is under very active development by every user pretty much, then other choices could be made without the detractors of isolating a segment of society and delaying their comprehension