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Публикация

Mark Copelovitch

Once again, I don’t know what to do with the Takes™️ from Ezra Klein, Andy Beshear, & everyone else about What Democrats Must Do™️ to reach out to Real Folks about Kitchen Table Issues, when the new political reality in 🇺🇸 is that large shares of voters simply believe the sun rises in the West

Stephen Nuñez

Over 80% of swing voters who chose Trump believed Harris held positions she didn’t campaign on in 2024, including supporting taxpayer funding for transgender surgeries for undocumented immigrants (83%)...decriminalizing border crossings (77%), and defunding the police (72%).

Обсуждение

17 прямых ответов · 33 сообщений

Показаны не все ответы

Публичный счётчик показывает 22, а источник передал 17. Остальные ответы могли быть удалены, скрыты или не выданы публично.

Paul Rabin

So many of us live in almost completely fact free spheres. Too many people believed lies about her and didn’t believe the truth about him.

palmcanoe

Amen amen amen amen

A
Albert Belle

Agreed. It's like talking to people who think the Earth is flat. Nothing you say will convince them no matter how you say it or who says it. I am all for talking more to people more, but many of them have a concrete block for a head.

Schrodinger’s Democracy

MSM participated willingly/knowingly in the Bannon "flood the zone" escalation. I was a Maher "new rules" video blaming the failure on social issues. I should have deleted, but did. Maher is the prototype "elite" - its not about money. It's smug self-importance. Klein is also there.

Ответ для Schrodinger’s Democracy
Wanda

I’ve always blamed him for giving Ann Coulter a platform. Arguably because he liked her looks.

That Baked Guy

This election taught me something important. George Carlin was right when he referenced the intelligence of the average person and I vastly overestimated exactly how intelligent the average person is

Mark Copelovitch

Even on the Kitchen Table Issues, a large share of voters simply believes things that are detached from empirical reality. Different candidates, different messaging/tone, or even different policy positions are not solutions to this problem, nor is Underpants Gnoming away Fox News & social media 🤷‍♂️

Mark Copelovitch

👇🎯 People simply believe materially false things about the economy right now. @prowag.bsky.social & I just surveyed 2000 people in 🇺🇸 last week & found exactly the same thing. 45% said they didn't receive Covid checks. 40% think 🇺🇸 is in a recession. 44% think inflation stayed the same/📈 in 2024. Etc.

Ответ для Mark Copelovitch
Opheodrys

Part of the problem is the chattering classes. They're too removed from the daily lives of the working-class voters Dems used to "own." Most don't read the Times or the Post; they consume other "stuff" masquerading as valuable info. Ezra Klein, I think, is closest to getting it right.

Ответ для Opheodrys
Opheodrys

Let's face it: most people have their faces down in their plates trying to keep it together. Kids still living at home, debt, social pressures, etc. They didn't vote for Trump so much as they voted, as Dowd said, to rip the face off Washington. Anger at Dems for not getting it prevails.

Ответ для Opheodrys
Ответ для Opheodrys
Andy Falcone

This generally only applies to white voters, unless you think black voters don't suffer? Because, somehow, they by-and-large see through the BS, and not throw an incoherent temper tantrum with their vote.

Ответ для Mark Copelovitch
nonplussed

I suspect the only thing that will work is running headlong into the brick wall of Reality. Unfortunately, there will be a lot of damage and loss before we reach that point.

Ответ для Mark Copelovitch
nyc118

Saw a young mother in MD who said Harris denied god and Biden was in charge when Covid happened! And she said she could “protect” her daughters with Trump!

Ответ для nyc118
Wanda

Disinfo and propaganda is all around. Even my well-informed friends repeat utterly false positions.

SteveUnicorn

Democrats need to update their microtargeting game. I think in a lot of ways that carried the day for the Republicans.

Radically Candid

Democrats should go on Joe Rogan. Should speak out against any particularly offensive/unpopular overreach on trans rights. Should defend the establishment in the ecosystems where it is casually being spoken of as nefarious. Should consider male candidates as safer choices for a period.

Ответ для Radically Candid
Radically Candid

The people who believe the sun rises in the west did not swing the election. Who did: People concerned about the economy, who've lost trust in the government during covid, who thought Trump was bad but have drawn conclusions from the lack of prosecutions and now assumed it was a beat up

hubba8088

Cults aren’t exactly known for their relationship with the truth

Jan Eijking

I get the frustration, but is that a good reason to give up arguing with those voters?

Ответ для Jan Eijking
Mark Copelovitch

When did I say this?

Ответ для Mark Copelovitch
Jan Eijking

I'm not suggesting you said this. I'm asking because that's the conclusion a lot of people seem to draw: that there's no point talking to each other if we can't agree on what's real and what isn't.

Ответ для Jan Eijking
Mark Copelovitch

I’m more concerned with the reverse, which is that a lot of people seem to believe that talking in different tones or just “reaching out” more will solve Democrats’ problems. I don’t have any answers, but neither do the pundits who are overwhelmingly offering nothing more than this.

Ответ для Mark Copelovitch
Jan Eijking

That's fair enough. I agree with you that it's not going to be solved simply by "changing the tone". But we also need to be careful not to revert to fixing the information environment as another supposed simple solution.

Ответ для Jan Eijking
jmalecki

I think you've just described religion. This isn't far off.

jmoney31299

Well the answer isn’t to actually run on those left wing issues like some are suggesting. To address the point when people see a company having a pride parade they associate that with democrats. Just is what it is. Doesn’t matter what rep actually believes

Void

asking this genuinely, is this notion a new phenomenon? ive grappled with that question a lot. is this worse than it used to be and is there any measurement of that empirically? the ignorance, not the information space. ive seen plenty to know that's worse.

Ответ для Void
Doc Sarvis

I think the current, widely dispersed/distributed media universe let's u stay misinformed Back when there were 3 national networks & nearly every paper, radio & TV station subcribed to the AP and/or UPI it was harder to insist wacko views were true, or to spread them (needed a mimeograph copier)

Ответ для Doc Sarvis
Doc Sarvis

Notice how Wall Street pays through the nose for Bloomberg terminals to get its facts? Even though FoxBusiness, CNBC and CNN Business would be cheaper (and largely stick to the facts their normie channels frequently skirt)? Only Donald finds disinformation useful when money is on the line

Stephen Nuñez

Downplaying immigration in messaging and even shifting right on immigration policy in practice did absolutely nothing to stop this. So even the cynical case for abandoning our values seems to fail.

Joel Berkowitz

beshear has magik powers tho

Speedy Sulu

Do you think there was any impact that the Hot Takes guys never refuted those republican talking points in real time? 🤷‍♀️

Michael Anderson

I have something of consensus on this. You need to contest the information war vigorously and continually (no more relying on good election ads) and a good key piece of ammunition to bring to that war is effective blue state and city governance like Klein et al. are championing.